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Best type of replacement pups for ES175 Fralin Humbuckers

#1 User is offline   macbeat 

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 03:22 PM

Just had Lindy Fralin 8k/9k paf humbuckers fitted to my ES175 .My humble opinion- The sound is ok -just ok - not so different from other humbuckers .Also there is now a lot of unwanted resonance on the E-A-D strings. I've read that players stuff foam ect into the body / tape up the f holes/ right hand muting /pennies taped over the poles/ect ect ect.to reduce this problem .I've lowered the bass side of the pup which has helped a bit . Basically this is disappointing but I'm sure there must be a simple solution to this problem.
Firstly does anyone else have experience of these Fralin pups ? Is it possible that they are are too hot ?.Are they potted or not and does it make a difference. His pure paf pups are lower output- 7-7.5K. and may work better.I have no interest in feedback or high volume sustain ect I'm just after quality of tone and clarity of note.
Can't find an email address for Fralin or I'd contact him direct for advice. Anyone out there had a similar experience or have any constructive advice- thankyou -kind regards -Neil

#2 User is offline   L5Larry 

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:09 PM

View Postmacbeat, on 24 March 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Just had Lindy Fralin 8k/9k paf humbuckers fitted to my ES175 ....there is now a lot of unwanted resonance on the E-A-D strings.


I started to post a long-winded response to your other thread, but I'll try to keep it short here.

Your "unwanted resonance" may be the guitar, not the pickups. The Fralin pickups may be enough more sensitive to be picking up sympathetic frequency resonance of the guitar itself that the original pickups didn't.

That said....... when I think of jazz guitar pickups Fralin is not exactly a name that comes to mind. There is one standard humbucker that I know of that is designed specifically for archtops, the Benedetto A-6. They are specially made for him by Seymour Duncan, and if Bob Benedetto is willing to put his name on it, then he hasn't found anybody that can build anything better for the purpose.

http://www.stewmac.c..._Humbucker.html

I've got a Benedetto S-6 (suspended pickguard mount) on my '47 L-7 and couldn't be happier.

#3 User is offline   stein 

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:23 PM

Another short version of an answer:

Overwound, or hot pups, are not really the pups you are looking for given what you describe you are looking for.

What you are decribing about the pups you have is not a reflection of quality, but rather that overwound pups are NOT going to sound good to you.

If I were in your shoes, I would return the pups if possible. At the very least, exchange them for a set of the 'standard', or low output versions.

Fralin pups may not be what a lot of "Jazzers" are into, but they are highly regarded. I would expect them to be at least as good as the average "high" quality PAF style made by Gibson, or Duncan.

Still, I would try and get a hold of Mr. Fralin himself. He does do custom pups for poeple, but likely he would already have made or have available pups wound to the application you are describing.

#4 User is offline   stein 

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 11:28 PM

Just googled Lindy Fralin. The website does come up.

Lots of helpful info to read about in helping to choose pups.

Also, his address and phone # are at the bottom of the page.

#5 User is offline   macbeat 

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 07:52 AM

View Poststein, on 24 March 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Another short version of an answer:

Overwound, or hot pups, are not really the pups you are looking for given what you describe you are looking for.

What you are decribing about the pups you have is not a reflection of quality, but rather that overwound pups are NOT going to sound good to you.

If I were in your shoes, I would return the pups if possible. At the very least, exchange them for a set of the 'standard', or low output versions.

Fralin pups may not be what a lot of "Jazzers" are into, but they are highly regarded. I would expect them to be at least as good as the average "high" quality PAF style made by Gibson, or Duncan.

Still, I would try and get a hold of Mr. Fralin himself. He does do custom pups for poeple, but likely he would already have made or have available pups wound to the application you are describing.

Thankyou for your advice stein .It may be that the 8/9k Fralins are great for a Les Paul-335 ect but are too hot for the body chambers of an archtop where there is much more air born resonance.There is evidence that light potting can help. Too much potting can isolate the pups and damage the acoustic relationship between body and pickup.I think the answer is to fit lower output pups or ones designed specifically for an archtop. -regards -Neil

#6 User is offline   macbeat 

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 07:57 AM

View PostL5Larry, on 24 March 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

I started to post a long-winded response to your other thread, but I'll try to keep it short here.

Your "unwanted resonance" may be the guitar, not the pickups. The Fralin pickups may be enough more sensitive to be picking up sympathetic frequency resonance of the guitar itself that the original pickups didn't.

That said....... when I think of jazz guitar pickups Fralin is not exactly a name that comes to mind. There is one standard humbucker that I know of that is designed specifically for archtops, the Benedetto A-6. They are specially made for him by Seymour Duncan, and if Bob Benedetto is willing to put his name on it, then he hasn't found anybody that can build anything better for the purpose.

http://www.stewmac.c..._Humbucker.html

I've got a Benedetto S-6 (suspended pickguard mount) on my '47 L-7 and couldn't be happier.

Thankyou for your good advice l5larry.Please refer to my response to stein .I agree that it is the guitar rather than the pickups and I'll try replacing the 8/9K Fralins with a more specific archtop type pickups like Benedetto or Fralin pure paf.-regards -Neil

#7 User is offline   AlanC 

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:31 PM

View PostL5Larry, on 24 March 2012 - 11:09 PM, said:

I started to post a long-winded response to your other thread, but I'll try to keep it short here.

Your "unwanted resonance" may be the guitar, not the pickups. The Fralin pickups may be enough more sensitive to be picking up sympathetic frequency resonance of the guitar itself that the original pickups didn't.

That said....... when I think of jazz guitar pickups Fralin is not exactly a name that comes to mind. There is one standard humbucker that I know of that is designed specifically for archtops, the Benedetto A-6. They are specially made for him by Seymour Duncan, and if Bob Benedetto is willing to put his name on it, then he hasn't found anybody that can build anything better for the purpose.

http://www.stewmac.c..._Humbucker.html

I've got a Benedetto S-6 (suspended pickguard mount) on my '47 L-7 and couldn't be happier.



Hi Larry,

How are you? Long time since we chatted. Hope all is good.

I also have fitted Benedetto Seymour Duncans to a couple of my guitars. They are really good. After buying a Herb Ellis ES165 brand new, I had problems with the pickup when the volume was turned up to 9 or 10. It got a really harsh sound. I hated it. It was thin, brittle and slightly distorted. I put a black Seymour Duncan Benedetto floating pickup in it which I think is an S-6. Great pickup.

I also have put Gold A-6's in my L4 CES and a B6 into my 2010 ES 175 SP. All very good pickups.

However about a year ago I bought an acoustic D'Aquisto New Yorker and ordered a D'Aquisto New Yorker floating pickup at the same time. Reason was that I couldn't get an electric New Yorker and I thought that I should take a chance. It took about a year for the pickup to arrive but the sound is both unique and great. As good a jazz sound as I've got. Beautiful through my Polytone or my Heinriksen 110.
AlanC.



#8 User is offline   AlanC 

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 04:35 PM

View Postmacbeat, on 25 March 2012 - 07:57 AM, said:

Thankyou for your good advice l5larry.Please refer to my response to stein .I agree that it is the guitar rather than the pickups and I'll try replacing the 8/9K Fralins with a more specific archtop type pickups like Benedetto or Fralin pure paf.-regards -Neil



At the very least look at the Benedetto's before you buy anything else. You will be surprised and pleased. They are really good. Good luck with the journey.


AlanC.



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Posted 26 March 2012 - 02:05 AM

Thankyou for your advice stein Posted Image

View PostAlanC, on 25 March 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Hi Larry,

How are you? Long time since we chatted. Hope all is good.

I also have fitted Benedetto Seymour Duncans to a couple of my guitars. They are really good. After buying a Herb Ellis ES165 brand new, I had problems with the pickup when the volume was turned up to 9 or 10. It got a really harsh sound. I hated it. It was thin, brittle and slightly distorted. I put a black Seymour Duncan Benedetto floating pickup in it which I think is an S-6. Great pickup.

I also have put Gold A-6's in my L4 CES and a B6 into my 2010 ES 175 SP. All very good pickups.

However about a year ago I bought an acoustic D'Aquisto New Yorker and ordered a D'Aquisto New Yorker floating pickup at the same time. Reason was that I couldn't get an electric New Yorker and I thought that I should take a chance. It took about a year for the pickup to arrive but the sound is both unique and great. As good a jazz sound as I've got. Beautiful through my Polytone or my Heinriksen 110.


#10 User is offline   Submit2NeckDive 

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 10:26 PM

View Postmacbeat, on 24 March 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Just had Lindy Fralin 8k/9k paf humbuckers fitted to my ES175 .My humble opinion- The sound is ok -just ok - not so different from other humbuckers .Also there is now a lot of unwanted resonance on the E-A-D strings. I've read that players stuff foam ect into the body / tape up the f holes/ right hand muting /pennies taped over the poles/ect ect ect.to reduce this problem .I've lowered the bass side of the pup which has helped a bit . Basically this is disappointing but I'm sure there must be a simple solution to this problem.
Firstly does anyone else have experience of these Fralin pups ? Is it possible that they are are too hot ?.Are they potted or not and does it make a difference. His pure paf pups are lower output- 7-7.5K. and may work better.I have no interest in feedback or high volume sustain ect I'm just after quality of tone and clarity of note.
Can't find an email address for Fralin or I'd contact him direct for advice. Anyone out there had a similar experience or have any constructive advice- thankyou -kind regards -Neil


Already great advice on the forum. Your position in regards to the amp can reduce feedback such as having your back to the amp can help. Or not being in the path of the amp. EQing your amp to be less mid pronounced can prevent unwanted boom and vibrations in the guitar. A great set up can do wonders. Another thing that can cause buzz is the height of the humbuckers. Magnets too close to the strings can pull on the strings, causing them to buzz, even when the set up is correct. Check the neck humbucker height. That being said the only times you want to check out new pickups is for new tones.

If you are looking for new tones that are more Jazzy or bluesy I would highly recommend a Solid State Jazz amp like: AER, Polytone, Fender Jazz King, or Roland. I say that being a fan of tube amps too, but trust me it sounds way different for Jazzy guitars. But if you love tubes and want a badass amp look up Rivera Jazz Suprema.

#11 User is offline   LysanderSky 

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 09:04 AM

I have a set of (unpotted) Bareknuckle Stormy Mondays on my 335. They are pretty much what you are looking for... I guess it depends a little where you are located, Bareknuckle are a great - if not the best - Pickup maker based in Europe. If you are located in the U.S. you might want to buy from an American PU boutique due to import prices...

https://bareknucklep...p=stormy_monday

#12 User is offline   Submit2NeckDive 

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 06:52 PM

View PostLysanderSky, on 27 March 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

I have a set of (unpotted) Bareknuckle Stormy Mondays on my 335. They are pretty much what you are looking for... I guess it depends a little where you are located, Bareknuckle are a great - if not the best - Pickup maker based in Europe. If you are located in the U.S. you might want to buy from an American PU boutique due to import prices...

https://bareknucklep...p=stormy_monday


I love Bareknuckles! Especially their single coils. Highly recommended. WCR are my fav US pickup manufactures besides Gibson. http://www.wcrguitar.com/

#13 User is offline   Californiaman 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 11:03 AM

I have the '57 Classics in my ES-175.
I don't plan on changing them. They work just fine for me.
1987 Alembic Five-String Spoiler Bass
1988 Gibson ES-175
2006 Fender Diamond Anniversary Telecaster
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2007 Fender "The '57 Limited Edition Deluxe Amplifier" Only 300 made for the world.


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#14 User is offline   CajunBlues 

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 02:47 PM

View PostCaliforniaman, on 02 April 2012 - 11:03 AM, said:

I have the '57 Classics in my ES-175.
I don't plan on changing them. They work just fine for me.


Can't say it any better than that... Only thing that is going to improve your tone on a stock Gibson ES-175 is your fingers...
Best cure for gear envy -- shut the hell up and play.

#15 User is offline   LysanderSky 

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 05:44 PM

Yea, the Classic 57s are great pickups. I had Burstbucker Pros in my ES 335 which I liked at first but after a while found a bit too hot/bright, not really ES-type sound (playing through a 1970 Fender Vibrolux).

Once I decided to change the stock pick-ups, I thought I'll try Bareknuckle Stormy Mondays and haven't regretted it! If the Classic 57s came stock with my ES I probably wouldn't have bothered changing them since I have them installed in an Epiphone 335 which I played for years and really liked.

I have to say though - quality difference of the guitars considered - that I prefer the SMs. I don't know if it is because they're unpotted or general quality, the Bareknuckles just sound outstanding.

Anyway OP, I would consider it is worth the extra dollar for ou to change the PU, the Classic 57s also work well in your guitar.

#16 User is offline   CajunBlues 

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 09:56 PM

View PostLysanderSky, on 03 April 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:


Once I decided to change the stock pick-ups, I thought I'll try Bareknuckle Stormy Mondays and haven't regretted it! If the Classic 57s came stock with my ES I probably wouldn't have bothered changing them since I have them installed in an Epiphone 335 which I played for years and really liked.



Stock pickups in a 335 after about 1992 have always been 57 classics... you sure you didn't replace 57 classics... because burstbuckers have the same "Patent Applied For" sticker on the back...
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#17 User is offline   LysanderSky 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 03:25 AM

View PostCajunBlues, on 03 April 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

Stock pickups in a 335 after about 1992 have always been 57 classics... you sure you didn't replace 57 classics... because burstbuckers have the same "Patent Applied For" sticker on the back...


Yes. I have a 2011 Memphis Block Inlay. The only 335 that does'nt come with Classic 57s. I mean those Burtbucker Pros aren't bad PUs but in a semi, they're way too hot. You can get a 57 like sound when using the tone and volume controls but the frequency range isn't the best...

#18 User is offline   CajunBlues 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 08:45 AM

View PostLysanderSky, on 04 April 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

Yes. I have a 2011 Memphis Block Inlay. The only 335 that does'nt come with Classic 57s. I mean those Burtbucker Pros aren't bad PUs but in a semi, they're way too hot. You can get a 57 like sound when using the tone and volume controls but the frequency range isn't the best...

I see... its not the "traditional 335 model" (for lack of a better term).... Thanks for pointing that out... funny how companies today want to make so many different models... The ES335 as it is/was will never go out of style...
Best cure for gear envy -- shut the hell up and play.

#19 User is offline   LysanderSky 

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 10:24 AM

View PostCajunBlues, on 04 April 2012 - 08:45 AM, said:

I see... its not the "traditional 335 model" (for lack of a better term).... Thanks for pointing that out... funny how companies today want to make so many different models... The ES335 as it is/was will never go out of style...


That's the one: http://www2.gibson.c...lock-Inlay.aspx
And yes I love 335s! B)

#20 User is offline   Al Watsky 

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Posted 14 April 2012 - 10:37 PM

How about a set of stock Gibson pickups.
A set 490's
Or you could search up a set of T tops used.
Those sound good through a Vibrolux.
Anything much hotter than 7.8 k is going to be too much in a full archtop.
You can do 8.2 or so in the bridge if you need that sound ,because the location of the bridge pickup rolls off lots of the lows , but for a clean Jazz tone lower output works nicely.

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