PRW Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I'm about to purchase a used Epi Sheraton II ... a lefty, which is the reason we're diving at this ... for my son as a high school graduation present, at a fair price. Fair enough to where I'm going to go ahead and spring for upgrades as well. I know the pickups will need to go. My son isn't into shredding or super distortion or anything, he's into Beatles/Byrds (he actually has a 12-string Rondo/Agile Les Paul copy that he plays more than anything that's strung with flatwounds and he runs through a Janglebox to do "McGuinn," but his 6-string is a cheapo which is why we're looking to go that route)/Tom Petty/rockabilly twanging. What's a good set of pickups for him to get that kind of sound? If we do the pickups, is it advisable just to go ahead and change the wiring or should we wait and upgrade as necessary? (i.e., when something goes wrong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRW Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 How do you know about the pickups before playing it ? You're right, we might hit the jackpot with this one (it's coming from a mail order dealer), but every Epi Sheraton I've ever heard as pretty much been along with the conventional wisdom I've seen here that pickup upgrades are No. 1 on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Something in the filtertron family would increase jangle and twang though a full hollow guitar would be better for the classic rockabilly sound. GFS has the Retrotron pickups, which are Gibson/Epi humbucker size and reasonably priced. No need to change the wiring ever IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dukex Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I agree that you should just play it for a while (as I did with my Epi Dot deluxe). But then, as I recently posted in a similar thread, I decided to take the plunge and upgrade all the electronics and pickups: BCS wiring kit: http://bcsguitars.com/?page_id=2760 Seymour Duncan Antiquity HBs: http://www.seymourdu...ity/humbuckers/ Sweet...Sweet...Sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Probably the most recommended PU's for 335's on the Duncan Forum are SD '59's (SH-1). They're very good PAF's, with a sharp high end and lots of clarity. Very good for Petty and rock-a-billy, and other genres too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgruff Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Pickups can make a huge difference to the sound of the guitar. Newer Epiphone pickups like the probuckers are better than the older models from several years back which can be pretty poor IMO. Do you know much about guitars? For the kind of sound you describe, you need pickups with a high resonant frequency. For humbuckers, that means something based on the original "PAF" design which doesn't have too many turns of wire per coil. More turns means lower resonant frequency and a duller sounding pickup. Some of the best PAF-style are Seymour Duncan Seth Lovers, Lollar Imperials, Bare Knuckle Mules. Resistance can give you a rough guide to resonant frequency (although technically it's more complicated than that). PAF-style should be around 7k-8k. The Gretsch filtertron design are bright and snarly and could be the first choice for the sound you describe. Check out TV Jones. I'd also try and find out what your son likes if you can make some discrete inquiries to avoid spoiling the surprise. Guitars are very personal things and usually most guitarists know exactly what they want. Good pickups can be expensive - keep an eye on ebay. I would leave the wiring alone unless you've got a good reason to change it ie something doesn't work or you want to install a specific wiring scheme. I'm a big fan of Jimmy Page wiring since I think this adds a huge amount tonal versatility to a dual humbucker guitar (you'll need 4-wire humbuckers). Given the price of a 2nd-hand Sheraton, it's probably not worth the expense unless you can do it yourself. Some guitarists can't be bothered with all the extra options anyway. Nuts are very often sub-optimal on a lot of guitars, not just Epiphone. This is really easy to fix if you are a guitar player but don't sweat it if not. Some people love Bigsby's. Some hate 'em. Again, it's the kind of thing that's easy to fit if you play guitar, otherwise maybe best left alone. Locking tuners are really nice: very quick and easy to change strings. Can help keep a Bigsby-equipped guitar stay in tune. Roller bridges are often fitted for the same reason. Pickups are the important one though. Or an amp..? This isn't for everyone but IMO easily the best bang for buck, tonewise, is to get a DIY kit of a classic amp design like this 5F1 Tweed Champ. It's not actually that hard if you know how to solder. There are some risks with live circuits and large capacitors (which can retain high voltage for some time after the power is switched off) but risks only become dangerous when you don't understand them or if you're careless. Be smart and be careful. Fender amps in general are maybe the first to check out if clean tones are important. The old 5F1 champ I mentioned actually breaks up quite early with humbuckers - and with a huge OD sound for such a little amp :) - but more modern versions like the champ x2 are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgruff Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 PS: fret wear can be a problem on a 2nd-hand guitar. The first thing to check is if it needs a re-fret, or a fret-level. A full re-fret could cost as much as the 2nd-hand value of the guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRW Posted June 2, 2013 Author Share Posted June 2, 2013 PS: fret wear can be a problem on a 2nd-hand guitar. The first thing to check is if it needs a re-fret, or a fret-level. A full re-fret could cost as much as the 2nd-hand value of the guitar. Yes, I've been playing for 40 years, although the kid at 18 has far surpassed me, he kicks me in the rear every time we play together. My own guitars are a solid-top J160E, a Rick 325v59, a 1980s Tokai AST-56 Strat copy with GFS Alnicos, an Ovation 12-string and my first guitar, an old Fender Malibu acoustic. Frets are supposed to be fine on this one (first question I asked), although I have right of approval to send the guitar back if it's not as advertised. It's a 2010 Chinese model made in Qingdao, FYI. The kid can change out tuners (he replaced them on my Gibson acoustic) so that's not a big deal if he needs to upgrade them. We have a good relationship with a local tech who does good work at reasonable prices so if there's a nut issue I'll probably let him fool with it. Had to do that on the Agile 12 string, factory basically just flipped a right-handed nut and it was totally unacceptable, Kurt at Rondo sent a replacement but it wasn't a whole lot better, so I got our tech to do a bone nut and that combined with a good setup and a bit of other tweaking made that a hellacious guitar for the price (heavy as all get-out, though, although I told the kid, "You want something lighter, i.e. a Rick 12, you're going to have to write that check." As far as who he likes and tries to emulate ... George Harrison, Carl Wilson, Mike Campbell, Roger McGuinn and Luther Perkins. His amp is a Vox Pathfinder, although he's got the itch to use some of his graduation money from other folks to get an amp like the one I just got, Fender Super Champ XD (not the X2) which he's using more than I am, LOL! Great little amp, tube vibe (2 6V6's and a 12AX7) and loud as a mutha for the size (and sounds better the more it's cranked), plus some a few modeling and digital effects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgruff Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I do like the XD clean channel and it is one of the better modelling amps. The output stage is all tube and (AFAIK) they use half an AX7 on the clean channel preamp (with the other half serving as a phase inverter). By comparison, tube amps like the 5F1 use both sides of the AX7 for preamp gain, in sequence, so you can potentially get more saturation. So: I'd like to try a good tube gain pedal (like the Blackstar HT's) into the XD clean channel sometime. With the output stage cranked, I suspect this would wipe the floor with the modelled sounds. Of course this is just for best overdriven tone - clean is good as it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resigned Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 great topic !! he's gonna love it :) there's nothing cooler than a Lefty Sheraton !! If we do the pickups, is it advisable just to go ahead and change the wiring or should we wait and upgrade as necessary? (i.e., when something goes wrong) depends on the age of your Sheraton ?? mine had Gibson PUs when i bought it & played fine until a few weeks ago the switch stopped working, when i pulled everything out it was all original & corroded (more than just dirty) so while it was apart i replaced everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRW Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 UPDATE, guitar got here yesterday, it's a 2010 Chinese from Qingdao factory, frets are pristine, body is pristine, fingerboard is pristine, slightest bit of tarnish on tuning keys, jack is tight, knobs work fine ... whoever owned this guitar before didn't play it very much. Pickups sound fine and actually a bit twangy, especially on the bridge, which is exactly what my son was looking for. I flipped it upside down and played it a bit, thing to me is surprisingly heavy for a semi-hollow, although I know it's not going to be as light as a fully hollow Casino *which would be my own Epi of preference, I just haven't found one I've bonded with yet). Anyway, if he wants to change the pickups someday, that's his business, and maybe he'll need to visit the electronics if something conks out, but honestly I don't think he needs to do a flipping thing to this guitar right now. I wouldn't if it was mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgruff Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 The pickups are a lot better on the more recent models. Sounds like you got a bargain :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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