Alroundj Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Hi, Im new here to this forum. I have decided to pull apart my new es339 pro and put new parts and pieces in it. I started with a new set of Burstbucker Pro's and Luxe .022 paper in oil bumblebee's. leaving the push pull pots and everything else stock. The guitar came back from the tech like there was a blanket over the amp. Dark, mid ranged and barely any jangle at all. I wasn't happy. I sent it back to have it investigated. I decided to get rid of the stock push pull pots which I believe we're 300k ? I went with a master volume and master tone, both of which were 500k cts. Using the same bumblebee cap. Also took out the stock cheap wire and put some thicker better insulated wire in. Now the result is much more jangle, neck pickup is deep but not mid ranged to death ,but the bridge is a bit bright., What are you guys experiencing with the burstbuckers? Furthermore, with these guitars? Now Im wondering if the bridge pickup should be switched with something else? It's bright like a '57 classic. I was looking for wow factor spending all the money on the pickups, but I just have another humbucker guitar right now. Any ideas are appreciated! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwich Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Welcome to the forum. I wouldn't call the 57 Classic neck pup bright, which is what I was going to suggest as a replacement for the BBs. They are stock in the Gibson ES339 and are appropriate for this guitar, if you want it to sound like an ES339/335. The Epi Burstbuckers are much brighter, IMO, but don't really come into their own until played at higher output. I've never had much luck with them at lower output levels. 57 Classics would get my vote for pups, but not sure about the pots and caps. Others will surely add their $.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Epi uses 500K pots on their humbucker and P-90 guitars; Gibson is the one that uses 300K's. Changing wires that short has no noticeable effect on tone. The original Burstbucker 1,2, & 3 (with A2 magnets) are very good PU's; Burstbucker Pros (A5 magnets) are not as highly regarded, not that good of a choice. Basically BBP's get replaced, almost no one buys them to replace something else. If you want more jangle, stay away from Gibson '57 Classics, they have a rounded top end. Spending a lot of money on PU's doesn't mean you'll get the tones you want. I get most of my PU's used on eBay, usually for around half price. If you want a brighter neck PU, I'd go with a Duncan Jazz; nice and clear. Most bridge PU's are bright and sharp, which is due to them having limited string vibration from being located so close to the bridge. There are several ways to deal with that: - Use your tone control, but if you have a master tone (not a good idea) dialing in your bridge tone means the neck will be too dark. - Use a 250K pot or two on the bridge PU, which filters out some of the upper treble. Again, a master volume and treble make this difficult. - Put in a warmer-toned magnet (cheap and easy to do, only takes minutes). - Sell the PU you have now, and buy a warmer one, like a Duncan A2P, Seth, or Gibson BB3. If I was you, I'd sell the BBP's and chalk it up to experience, and get different ones, like a Duncan A2P for the bridge and a Jazz for the neck. And I'd wire it back for two volumes and two tones so you have more control over the sound. Master volume and tone is a 'one-size-fits-all' for both PU's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dporto Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 What Bluemans335 said I've never thought of semi-hollow bodied humbucker equipped guitars as particularly "jangley"... That being said, the single coil (tapped) sound of the ES339 Pro gets you pretty close, depending how your amp is set up. Good Luck - hope you get it worked out soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 When you have 4-lead humbuckers you can do something even better than coil cut. It's called spin-a-split. You convert the tone pot to a second volume pot for one coil only, so you can dial in any amount of it you want. From single coil to full humbucker and everything inbtween. Unbalanced coils are one of the things that made the original 1950's PAF's sound so great, open and alive. When the coils aren't matched, you get both humbucker and single coil tones at the same time. That really cleans up a neck PU. You have total control over it, and can adjust it just the way you want. There's wiring diagrams online. No parts needed, no push-pull. Only takes minutes to do. I also wire my guitars for 'independent volume controls', so I can blend them in the middle toggle position, as much or as little of each as I want. Again, no parts needed, you just change the lugs a couple wires go to (diagrams online). Between this and spin-a-split, you have dozens of tones available, and it costs nothing. If you want to be able to dial in the tones you want, it's better to wire your guitar to be as versatile as possible. Master volume and tone tie your hands and severely limit what you can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alroundj Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 Yeah I meant to say the bridge pickup is bright like a '57. Thanks for all the helpful comments. I am a bit torn now, because after adjusting the eq on my Princeton reverb and taking the guitar to practice, here is what I have. A nice warm neck pickup that sounds good clean, but under a full tone overdrive, it doesn't want to stick out in the mix. I enjoy playing lead often on the neck pickup to get that Dickey Betts type tone but this doesn't have it. Both pickups on sounds fantastic. Very nice tone clean that's great for the r&b stuff. Bridge I don't use much unless I'm using overdrive. I sounds ok, but for some reason, much different than positions 1and 2. Like it doesn't belong. I dropped e tone pot and it takes the harsh away some but by that time, it's almost to the MUD setting. I will probably take your advice and maybe change the bridge out for a JB or something. I really dig the old T Top tone. I see a few guys out there winding imitation t tops. I may check those out as well. Anyone have experience with any of these guys? Sheptone or Skatterbraine? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dporto Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 When you have 4-lead humbuckers you can do something even better than coil cut. It's called spin-a-split. You convert the tone pot to a second volume pot for one coil only, so you can dial in any amount of it you want. From single coil to full humbucker and everything inbtween. Unbalanced coils are one of the things that made the original 1950's PAF's sound so great, open and alive. When the coils aren't matched, you get both humbucker and single coil tones at the same time. That really cleans up a neck PU. You have total control over it, and can adjust it just the way you want. There's wiring diagrams online. No parts needed, no push-pull. Only takes minutes to do. I also wire my guitars for 'independent volume controls', so I can blend them in the middle toggle position, as much or as little of each as I want. Again, no parts needed, you just change the lugs a couple wires go to (diagrams online). Between this and spin-a-split, you have dozens of tones available, and it costs nothing. If you want to be able to dial in the tones you want, it's better to wire your guitar to be as versatile as possible. Master volume and tone tie your hands and severely limit what you can do. Spin a Split sounds pretty cool (I really like the idea of blending the single coil/humbucker sounds), but I think I would miss the tone controls a great deal...I haven't gotten around to changing over to "independent volume controls" yet but definitely plan to - I'm not crazy about the "dependent" scheme... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 I will probably take your advice and maybe change the bridge out for a JB or something. I really dig the old T Top tone. I see a few guys out there winding imitation t tops. I may check those out as well. Anyone have experience with any of these guys? Sheptone or Skatterbraine? Thanks What kind of tones are you looking for? JB's are a hot overwound 16K PU that is not a good choice for semihollows. They were made for bright woods, good for metal in a Strat or Tele, but are quirky in warmer-toned guitars and woods, where they can develop an 'ice pick spike' high-end and 'flabby' low-end. I doubt you'd be happy with one in a 339. Nothing like a T top. My favorite PAF is Duncan's Seth's, which were designed by Seymour Duncan and Seth Lover, the guy who invented the orginal Gibson PAF's in the mid 1950's Authentic specs and tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alroundj Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 What kind of tones are you looking for? JB's are a hot overwound 16K PU that is not a good choice for semihollows. They were made for bright woods, good for metal in a Strat or Tele, but are quirky in warmer-toned guitars and woods, where they can develop an 'ice pick spike' high-end and 'flabby' low-end. I doubt you'd be happy with one in a 339. Nothing like a T top. My favorite PAF is Duncan's Seth's, which were designed by Seymour Duncan and Seth Lover, the guy who invented the orginal Gibson PAF's in the mid 1950's Authentic specs and tones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alroundj Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 Yeah I'm lookin for the vintage tone. Clapton in Cream or Dickey Betts, elvin Bishop, Alvin Lee... Just some examples. Of coarse I am taking into consideration I am not playing through a Marshall. I should be able to get close though. I have been doing a lot of research on YouTube, listening to different samples. Problem is, most sound samples are comin from Les Paul's and not hollow bodies. Total different realm. The original reason I ended up with the BB pros was because I wanted to stick with the push/pull pots that came in the guitar. I wanted Burstbuckers, but the pro was the only one that came in 4 conductor. Now I have lost interest in the push/pull and just want that authentic old tone. Trouble is finding it..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Yeah I'm lookin for the vintage tone. Clapton in Cream or Dickey Betts, elvin Bishop, Alvin Lee... Just some examples. Of coarse I am taking into consideration I am not playing through a Marshall. I should be able to get close though. I have been doing a lot of research on YouTube, listening to different samples. Problem is, most sound samples are comin from Les Paul's and not hollow bodies. Total different realm. The original reason I ended up with the BB pros was because I wanted to stick with the push/pull pots that came in the guitar. I wanted Burstbuckers, but the pro was the only one that came in 4 conductor. Now I have lost interest in the push/pull and just want that authentic old tone. Trouble is finding it..... Aftermarket BB's come 4-lead (apparently they save a few cents by using single-lead humbuckers in their guitars). The guitar sounds you like are from original PAF's, so that's where to focus: on authentic replicas, like BB's, Seth's, Fralins, Lollars, etc. And stay FAR AWAY from overwound PU's like JB's. Spin-a-split is much better than using coil cut with a push-pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alroundj Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 Got it! Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Check for used PU's online. That's where I get most of mine, usually for around half price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dporto Posted July 6, 2013 Share Posted July 6, 2013 "Spin-a-split is much better than using coil cut with a push-pull. " "Better" is a subjective term...Once again, I like the ability to blend the single coil and the humbucker, but not in lieu of dedicated tone controls... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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