Machine Head Swap Out

[oo0paddyc0oo]

Hi kids,

I'm considering swaping out the Grover Machine Heads (Kidney Shaped) on my '98 ES335 with some Gibson Vintage Machine Heads. Simply because I think they look cooler.

 

Has anyone done this?

 

Will there be any visible marks in the back of the Head Stock? I.E. in the finish or perhaps screw marks?

 

Cheers,

 

PC

[GPFALLON1]

dont know if the screw holes will line up but if your talking about geuine gibson tulip tuners id suggest you get the modern version they look identical the difference is the ferrels screw into the tuner providing more stability good luck

[henry_lee]

howdy -

 

yes, it can be done. but you may have to jump through a few hoops....

 

- in my experience the Grover Rotomatic's leave less impressions in the lacquer. so you might be ok there.

- the single screw of the Grover **might** line up with the bottom screw of a Gibson branded tuner. If not, it would

need to be plugged and re-drilled along with the second screw hole.

 

- if you use the Gibson Historic tuners with press-fit bushings, you'll need to use conversion bushings since the

Grovers use a larger diameter hole through the headstock.

 

- if you use the current standard Gibson Tulip tuners with screw-on bushings, you'll be fine with regards to bushings.

 

I've done this exact swap on a 70's Martin so I know the single Grover screw hole will line up with

a bottom Waverly hole, but that hole will not line up with a Gibson-branded tuner hole. So it would

most likely require a fill and re-drill to be perfect.

 

I've swapped tuners on many, many, many guitars - usually from modern tuners to vintage style

tuners and they are all over the map in terms of footprint.

 

Check out Stewmac.com for detailed measurements of various tuner footprints before you begin.

They also sell conversion bushings if you go that route.

 

good luck!

[JazzGtr]

dont know if the screw holes will line up but if your talking about geuine gibson tulip tuners id suggest you get the modern version they look identical the difference is the ferrels screw into the tuner providing more stability good luck

 

For this reason, I just replaced my 335 kidney tuners with the metal tulip tuners. The vintage tulips screws won't line up with the original holes. I eventually sold my 335 and replace it with the 356 which has the vintage tulip tuners. It looks a lot better with the vintage tuners than the metal tuners.

 

Good luck.

[bobv]

- if you use the current standard Gibson Tulip tuners with screw-on bushings' date=' you'll be fine with regards to bushings.[/quote']

 

Also the Tone Pros tulip tuners with bolt-bushings will also fit the holes (they're standard on the Les Paul Traditional and they say "Kluson Deluxe" instead of "Gibson Deluxe"). I'm talking about the through-holes for the tuner posts and bushings/ferrules - not the little screws on the back.

[lakehaus]

Hi kids' date='

I'm considering swaping out the Grover Machine Heads (Kidney Shaped) on my '98 ES335 with some Gibson Vintage Machine Heads. Simply because I think they look cooler. When I swapped the originals back in when I sold it, there was an impression of the new tuners - ever so slight - on the back of the headstock.

 

Has anyone done this?

 

Will there be any visible marks in the back of the Head Stock? I.E. in the finish or perhaps screw marks?

 

Cheers,

 

PC[/quote']

 

I did this with my '99 ES-335 DOT. I removed the top bolt ferrule Grovers and replaced with drop in Klusons. I did not drill for or use the top screws, and the bottom screw holes lined up perfectly as I recall and looked stock.

 

My '71 ES-175 (pic'd below) came with keystone/tulip tuners originally, I believe. But when I got the guitar, it had Schallers - which I don't care for. Furthermore, the hole widening was done by an amateur (I hope!) and was nasty to look at. So I used a proper reaming tool and smoothed the sh*tty excuse for tuner shaft holes, then installed some Grover closed back tuners for a while.

 

But, like the OP, I wanted that vintage tulip look so got a set of Kluson double line, double ring tuners, aged them, pressed in some conversion bushings and installed.

 

The result isn't too bad looking, but my guitar is a player so I wasn't too concerned about the appearance. But, the washer "stains" are there. Check it out for reference. If you want perfection, you may want to go with top mount bolt down ferrules.

 

[oo0paddyc0oo]

Hey dude, could you please post a pic of the back of that headstock. I would be very much appreciated.

[lakehaus]

Back of headstock as requested:

 

The original screw holes were used. However, because of the multiple tuner change outs I used mahogany splinters & some wood glue to completely fill the bottom screw holes. This addressed the loose feel and provided a tight fit.

 

You can see the impressed outline and filled screw holes of the former non-original Schaller tuners.

 

[sok66]

Some good tips from all. Using the step-up bushings will render the more authentic look, but from a functional standpoint the threaded bushings seem to work best. Many a vintage Gibson was hit with by the "Grover Bus" back in the day due to the Kluson's somewhat imprecise feel, and a mistaken assumption that they were slipping and causing tuning issues. In virtually every case the issue was really binding at the nut slot or slop in the trapeze tailpiece. To me Grover & Schaller tuners added unpleasant weight to the headstock.