rchgck Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 FYI to all Smeckheads.. There is a really nice Stage DeLuxe on ebay right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&Item=280433449735&Category=118979&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26its%3DI%26otn%3D2 The location was at a pawn shop in Newark, Ohio so I drove over to see it today. No serial number anywhere, inside on head stock, etc. The guitar is in great condition. No cracks that I could find, neck looked good. It's still in original fretless form for Hawaiian playing. Considering the current bid and the fact that it would need a neck reset and frets I decided to pass. Really great looking guitar. I never had the chance to hold an original Smeck. The fretboard is really huge but I liked it. Hoping to find one of these converted in the 3K range someday. The guy who showed it to me told me that a guy had brought it and a twelve string acoustic in and they had no idea what they had at the time. They had local music shop take a look at it and decided to put it on ebay. You never know what is going to turn up in a pawn shop. I took a few additional photos. If anyone is interested email me at rchgck (at) yahoo.com. I am in no way affiliated with the seller, just putting the tip out there. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumner77 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 The way this one looks it could go above $4,000. A good estimate of the conversion work is $1,500; neck reset, radius fingerboard, frets, new nut, new compensated saddle. You would not want just anyone doing the conversion. Maybe the neck needs to be reshaped. Was it square or just a huge V? Anyway, $5,500 to $6,000 for a really clean original example is a pretty good price, post conversion. Someone may wish to keep it in hawaiian setup. These are spectacular sounding guitars when done right. A converted stage deluxe earlier in the year sold on ebay for around $3,000 plus, though in pretty rough cosmetic shape. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted December 8, 2009 Share Posted December 8, 2009 Steve Swan has a converted one on his site for $6900. http://www.steveswanguitars.com/Gibson.htm. The Smeck on ebay is a great deal if you could get it for about what the current price is, but I'd bet there will be some spirited last minute bidding. If I ever found one I would want to do the conversion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 An unconverted Stage Deluxe sold on ebay last week for $4500 the BIN price. As I recall the bid was placed until very late in the auction. I don't think it had the OHSC. I have one I am going to be selling, unconverted probably a 1934. The bridge plate was cracked and could not be saved, otherwise mine is a very nice original. I would like to play a converted Smeck. I have good reports on the UMGF from those who own them. I have never priced a conversion, but $1500 sounds like a good estimate. A gibson Jumbo from 1934 would cast you a bundle. I don't know how close a Smeck comes to that sound. I took mine to a jam session so a Dobro playing friend could play it. I play some Dobro also. The Smeck is not easy to play with the super wide neck, hard to bar and hard to fingerpick. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumner77 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 A gibson Jumbo from 1934 would cast you a bundle. I don't know how close a Smeck comes to that sound.Terry Terry, it's subjective, and others may disagree, but I thing a converted smeck comes very close. Before I bought it Ren Ferguson had my guitar for about a month, one of several he looked over for the Jackson Browne specs. He said he had a room full of J-35s, and only a few were great sounding. He said mine was like a great sounding J-35. Which of course I thought was pretty cool. The stage deluxe is, of course, NOT a 30's jumbo in collectibility value, but in tone per dollar, very tough to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I didn't remember you have a converted Smeck. Very cool! If you got one for $4500 plus $1500 would be $6000. You won't find a Jumbo or J 35 for that amount unless is pretty poor shape. Sounds like a Smeck is worth converting sound and money wise. I am going to ask $4500 for mine. If it doesn't sell maybe I will get it converted someday. I just put a my maple Banner J 45 on my gbase site for $8900. Talk about sound. Nothing like them in the Gibson world or any other world I know of. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchgck Posted December 9, 2009 Author Share Posted December 9, 2009 Thanks for the info on the neck reset. I would have guessed less than $1500 but as someone stated, you want it done right the first time by someone who knows what they are doing. It was nice to hold an original Smeck and feel how wide the neck was. If I remember correctly the neck had a V behind it. I really want an original Smeck converted. I liked the wide fretboard. I could imagine it would take playing to another place and make you compensate for the things you could not do (like low fret barring for example) with other more creative ways of playing. I think in some regard this is what Jackson Browne does with his Smeck fleet. I have one of the Radio Grande Reissues and the Stage Deluxe felt the same outside of the neck, width and the intense V on the back. The guitar is built like a fireplug. It will be interesting to see what happens near the end of the auction and how much this Smeck goes for. I am looking at one of the Smeck Stage DeLuxe reissues or prototypes that is for sale, assuming it was from a run for the Jackson Browne signature. The store says it was made in 2005. I have only seen a few of these around. I really want the "Stage DeLuxe" on the peg board and the white tuners as opposed to some I have seen with no screening and gold tuners. Can anyone shed any light on the production of these Stage DeLuxe's from 2005 and on the Jackson Browne signature model referenced in forums. Is this something that is in the works or rumored to be in the works? Is that going to happen any time soon? I am hoping it's an exact replica of a 34 Smeck Stage Deluxe as if a conversion had been done, big baseball bat neck and all. Probably wishfull thinking. There is just something about these Smeck's that I am obsessed with. Hope to own reissues of each (Radio Grande and Stage DeLuxe) and someday two orignials of each. I better start saving now. Any idea on how many Smeck were produced from 34 to 42 or whatever their production span was? R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 I read an interview with JB recently where the whole question of the signature models came up. Can't find the interview at the moment, but long story short, he sounded fairly disgusted with the progress of the whole thing. My impression was don't hold your breath on the Jackson Brown sig Roy Smeck being available anytime soon, if ever. Pity that. There are a fair number of people, including me, who would be interested in that guitar, depending on the specs. Imo, Gibson is missing a good opportunity if they're not doing everything they can to make it work. Regarding the originals, my impression s that these are among the few vintage guitars that don't suffer a decline in value after major surgery, namely the conversion to a Spanish style playable guitar. I could be wrong, but it seems that these are at least as valuable converted as they are when left original. IIRC, folk's like Willie Henkes have strong feelings about that, and I certainly understand that point of view, but having encountered a few un-converted ones recently, let's just say it wouldn't be my first choice as a player. All of that said though, if I had an original, it would not be an easy decision to convert it. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I agree it is a case where they remain valued with the conversion. It seems most Martin 00-18H 00-40H are converted with not a lot of complaining. I don't have an issue converting them. If you still want to play lap style just put a nut extender on a converted guitar, but I doubt that ever happens. They will get a lot more use as a spanish guitar. Actually they can be a bargain if you buy one and convert it for a total of $6K. You won't buy any Gibson Jumbos from the 30s at that price unless you steal it which seems rare these days. Check out mine on mygbase site along with some other interesting vintage Gibsons for sale. http://www.gbase.com/stores/tms-guitars/inventory Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 in my encounter with JB a few weeks back i asked about the signature model (i have a prototype) and he suggested it is dead in the water. he and gibson have different ideas about the pick up that was to be included among other things. an unconverted smeck would have no value for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumner77 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 rchgck, Re; an original radio grande?, I'll let you know the location of the second one I find. It's pretty much my dream vintage guitar and would complete my collection. Steve Swan told me a year ago that if I were patient I could get one for not much above $10,000. The two I've seen in the last year were way over that. George Gruhn has one, unconverted and in rare great shape, for $16,500. I think very few were made; Gibson just didn't make Rosewood guitars much. Someone here may know, but if you post your question about numbers over at the UMGF you'll get an answer from someone who has a copy of the Gibson books from the 30's, like Willi Henkes. Dennis, I hope someone is keeping a few pristine unconverted Smecks. I would also have to think about it (conversion). Some have taken to converting by replacing the original neck with a new spanish style neck, and keeping the hawaiian neck in storage, thus making it possible to put the guitar in original condition. Jannusguy, if he chimes in, knows a lot about the JB project, and I think he says it is dead, for now. I agree, though, if they did a Smeck with the attention to original materials and methods like the Legends series I would take a serious look. The trouble is that the price might equal or exceed the price of the original Stage Deluxe. Martin hit a home run with it's D-18 Authentic because the originals are off the chart expensive. That makes collecting the Smecks still really attractive, IMO. TM, I wish you hadn't mentioned your maple J-45. It looks like a real beauty. Can you describe the tone? Hope this isn't a hijack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 See, that is just amazing to me. Jackson Brown is one of the iconic singer/songwriter/players of the 20th century, a guy with name recognition that can't be beat, admired by musicians and non-players alike, and who also happens to possess a real love for old Gibson's. That Gibson isn't bending over backwards to do whatever is necessary to make that happen is, well, amazing, and maybe a bit short-sighted, imo. By the way jannusguy, it may be your earlier comment on this that I'm remembering and not an article. Thanks for the information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Sumner, I was at Alan Perlman's shop a month or so ago and he had a Smeck there that he was working on for Steve Swan. Iirc, Alan was planning on cutting the neck down a bit rather than building a replacement, but I could be wrong about that. I have no idea what Steve will ask for it when it's finished of course, but if you haven't talked to him recently, you might want to give him a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumner77 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Dennis, I visited Steve's shop last week and can say that Steve is a great guy, and he has some fine guitars in his shop. Sadly, a Smeck was not among them. Someone had borrowed it that day for some time in the studio. Steve loves the Smecks, and is constantly on the lookout for them. He also used to have Santa Cruz build a likeness of them, the SSJ, and now that work is going to Rockridge. My Stage Deluxe is a '38 btw, and I've actually not compared many others to mine, so that would have been great. I've only played two others, both at Lark Street Music in NJ, where I live. If I ever buy another Stage Deluxe it will be an earlier model. BTW, from what I hear you are lucky to be within driving distance of Alan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 I think the best way to get a converted Smeck is to buy an unconverted Smeck. I may sound a salesman here, but I'm not concerned about mine selling. If you have the work done you have control over the process. Forum discussions I have read there are several schools of thought and several people around the country who do this work. If you convert a nice original you end up with a pretty cheap 30s Gibson Jumbo that is going to be what you want. TM, I wish you hadn't mentioned your maple J-45. It looks like a real beauty. Can you describe the tone? Hope this isn't a hijack The most common response from people who have played one is usually, Wow!! My friend John Thomas is one of the few people who didn't like the maple although he does play a LC. They are loud, powerful, great projection, clear, sensitive, good sustain. Somewhat like playing an amplified guitar. They require a good hand as the guitar can really highlight mistakes. I think most Gibson respond to a heavy hand, even the lightly built guitars, the maple comes alive with less effort. These guitars have a great dynamic range, like it has tone and volume control more so than other guitars. That is why it can do so much but has to be played accurately. People have told me they remind them of a really good pre-war Martin. I don't own any Martins at this time, but I kinda know what they mean. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brians356 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 JannusGuy, Do you know how many JB prototypes were released from Bozeman? Brian Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 JannusGuy' date=' Do you know how many JB prototypes were released from Bozeman? Brian Adams[/quote'] my understanding was 5. there are 2 left at fullers in houston. one has a label signed by ren as a pilot run. the other is like mine and has been reduced in price due a bit of shop wear. i think it's listed for 3400.00 but i paid 2800.00 for mine. they are shown on fuller's website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayfingers Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 Can anyone shed any light on the production of these Stage DeLuxe's from 2005 and on the Jackson Browne signature model referenced in forums. Is this something that is in the works or rumored to be in the works? R Hi, I'm new here, and have joined after picking up one of the 2005 Stage De Luxe's, new in a scratch n' dent sale, I'm really liking, and if you look in my intro post from today, you can see a picture. I'm going to see if I can get the spec's from Gibson, I can fill you in on any details I get from them if you are interested. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumner77 Posted December 10, 2009 Share Posted December 10, 2009 rchgck's smeck took in $4,800, a pretty high price for an ebay auction, but this guitar looked very clean. I half hope a collector will keep a clean guitar in the safe. Good luck if someone here bought it. Terry, I've played two maple j-45s, one that wasn't so great, and the other had a huge barking sound that I thought was amazing, and terrific; very responsive. Recently an ebay maple J-45 was listed at $6,900 and went BIN pretty fast, not sure for what price. Described as quite tremendous sounding, though it looked as if everything but a truck had run over it. Yours is much prettier. Good luck. Are you in the CT or NY area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rchgck Posted December 10, 2009 Author Share Posted December 10, 2009 That is really disappointing to hear the Smeck signature reissue is on hold. The auction for the unconverted Smeck that was on ebay just ended and sold for $4800. Can anyone clarify the differences between the Smeck prototypes (most look to have 2" width nut but nothing screened on the pegboard, ie: Stage Deluxe, etc) and the Smeck Stage Deluxe's produced around 2005 with the Stage Deluxe screened on it. http://www.avenue-guitars.com/Acoustics/Gibson%20-%20Roy%20Smeck%20HS.JPG I also can't keep the nut widths straight. Some are 2" some not. Some models have gold tuners and a fretboard that resembles the 1994 Centennial Radio Grande inlays. (second set of photos) http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=25504 The first pic in the above link looks like a 2005. One just sold on ebay a few months ago. It's hard to keep track of all these. I really like the Smeck at Fuller's but it does not have the "Roy Smeck Stage De Luxe" on the pegboard, which is a must for me. One last question. The 2005 Smeck's that I have seen all have the pick guard placed over the white trim on the soundhole. http://www.avenue-guitars.com/Acoustics/Gibson%20-%20Roy%20Smeck.JPG Anyone know why? Would it be possible to reposition the pick guard on such a model? Todd, it looks like the Smeck you have is a 2005 with the strange pick guard placement. I would be very interested to hear what the specs are on that model, specifically the nut width. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Last nights Roy Smeck sale seems to make sense. It had the OHSC which I would gladly pay $300 for if any one has one! Gruhn just listed a converted Smeck owned and played by Norman Blake for 9K. There is a Centennial edition Radio Grande on ebay now, natural top. Folkway in Canada has a sunburst Centennial for $2800 that looks very nice. I really like the Centennial collection, but I am always wary of them. Seems a lot of them get cracks and not just the Smecks. I have never played one, never played a converted Smeck. Terry, I've played two maple j-45s, one that wasn't so great, and the other had a huge barking sound that I thought was amazing, and terrific; very responsive. Recently an ebay maple J-45 was listed at $6,900 and went BIN pretty fast, not sure for what price. Described as quite tremendous sounding, though it looked as if everything but a truck had run over it. Yours is much prettier. Good luck. Are you in the CT or NY area? Sorry I live in Illinois. The ebay guitar didn't sell, the auction ended early. I would suppose an off ebay deal was made. The person who repaired and owned that guitar commented on it on UMGF. He wanted it back, said it was a great guitar. I would liked to have it, didn't have to worry about nicking it! I had two at the same time, the one I sold had overspray and a crack down the top. While they had the same general tone, my present guitar is better. Great guitars. They aren't rare, although they made fewer than the mahogany they should command the price because of the tone. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 One last question. The 2005 Smeck's that I have seen all have the pick guard placed over the white trim on the soundhole. http://www.avenue-guitars.com/Acoustics/Gibson%20-%20Roy%20Smeck.JPG Anyone know why?Would it be possible to reposition the pick guard on such a model? R The way Gibson now places the pickguard over the rosette and right up to the soundhole on so many of their guitars is a pet peeve of mine. It just doesn't look right to me and I wish they didn't do that, except where it's historically accurate. Neither of my vintage Gibby's is done like that, nor was my '97 J-45. Look at the pictures of older instruments in Fabulous Flattops and you see that very few of them (one of the few exceptions being the J-200) are done this way. Certainly, the original Smecks' didn't have the p/g covering the rosette, at least in the pictures and few originals I've seen. I have no idea why Gibson does this. If I were ever to buy a new one, I would immediately have the p/g removed and replaced in the "correct " (for me) position. My guess is that the inner radius would have to be re-cut to match the radius of the outer ring of the rosette. I would think there would be a slight "tan" line, but that will blend over time and disappear. The longer you wait to have it done, the harder it will be to get rid of that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Terry, I took a look at the guitars you have listed on your gbase site. You have some very nice guitars listed there, and the Smeck is a steal at that price. If I had any free funds at the moment I'd go for it. Alas, I don't. Good luck finding a buyer, I doubt you'll have a hard time selling it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clayfingers Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Hi R, The nut width on my 2005 Stage De Luxe is 1 7/8" (edge to edge), have posted some more picks over on my thread. I thought the pickgaurd over the rosette was a little unusual, but not enough to stop me. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I doubt you'll have a hard time selling it. My Roy Smeck sold today. Maybe there will be another some day. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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