Upgrading my ES-135

[j.zero]

Hi everyone,

 

I recently bought a used black ES-135. I guess it's an early one because it has the p-100 pickups. I really enjoyed playing it when I bought it, but when I brought it home and compared it to my other guitars (Sg special, Fender strat, Gretsch hot rod), it really seemed muddy sounding and lacked chime and punch. I replaced the p-100 at the bridge with a Gibson p-90. It improved the sound a bit (fuller that the p-100), but it seems to me that the pickup sounds very low-midrangy and lacks top end on this guitar.

 

I was wondering if you had any suggestions of harware changes I could make to get a more punchy, crisp and trebly sound.

 

(I know that it is normal for a semi-hollowbpdy guitar to have a darker tone, but I once had a 335, and it certainly didn't sound as muddy and dark as this ES-135!)

 

Thanks!

 

[vincentw]

I would also replace the bridge pickup with a Gibson P-90. These have an Alnico V magnet and will be brighter than the P-100s. Beyond that, perhaps replacing the pots with 500k will also bring a bit more treble. Do you have a trapeze tailpiece? If so, I'd keep it...but a stopbar will bring more sustain.

[vincentw]

I see the photo now...Bigsby. Sweet. Keep the Bigsby.

[j.zero]

The P-90 I had installed is at the bridge position...Do you think a mini-humbucker could be livier, since it has a higher output?

[Robin Nahum]

Hi J.Zero,

 

Before you start chopping and changing, there are a few things to try.

 

(1) Is your pickup/polepiece height correct? Have you tried changing it/them to see what happens?

 

(2) If you are using an amp with high and low gain inputs, have you tried the low gain input? I always play my humbucker guitars through the low gain as I am after a cleaner tone.

 

(3) different strings?

 

If none of this works and you want to spend, there are P90s and P90s. Possibly one that is wound differently to the Gibson will give you the tone you seek. I suggest contacting some custom pickup makers, telling them what you're after and seeing what they can do. The ones I have dealt with and who have been very good are:

 

Lindy Fralin

Pete Biltoft (Vintage Vibe)

Jason Lollar

 

And there are lots of others.

 

A minibucker, I think you will find, has a lower output than your average P90. That is why it is more of a favourite for the neck position of a Tele than a P90.

 

RN

[j.zero]

Thanks! I'll check this out...

[brundaddy]

I agree w/ above. See if raising the pickup has an effect (might be your best bet), as well as trying different amp inputs. What amp is it? Some amps won't brighten up, like if it's a 15" speaker for instance.

 

I have the same 135 but mine has 57 Classics, it always cuts through the mix. So just know that if push comes to shove, and even new pots don't help, a 57 at the bridge will cure you.

[j.zero]

Hi,

 

I've raised the pickups a little. I gained some imput and a little bit of "presence", but still the bridge p-90 sounds very mid-rangy and flat, especially compared to the p-100 which is much cleaner, although quite dark.

 

What pickup would you recommend to get more highs and less mids? Do you think something like a Dynasonic could do the trick? Also, I really love the sound of classic 57's, but i'm afraid they would be to muddy in this guitar...

[Robin Nahum]

Hi jz

 

Did you also try lowering it? How old are the strings?

 

Re plan B, if you buy a pickup by type you may be lucky and get one that sounds right, but as with P90s, I'm sure there are Dynasonics and Dynasonics and the one you buy aftermarket might not sound anything like the one you tried at the vintage guitar store. I would talk things over with a pickup maker or three before you spend more money.

 

RN

[SamBooka]

Before you buy new pickups...

You have already changed one so I assume you can use a soldering iron.

Is it both pickups that are muddy or just one?

Working on these guitars can be a PITA since there is no access plate but I would:

a) try new strings (obviously.. but I have to say it)

try each pickup bypassing the vol/tone control pu--> output.

 

If the pickup sounds better without the tone controls well that is where you start looking. My rule of thumb is:

-if rolling off the tone seems to make the volume drop as well go for a smaller value cap. (eg .018mf instead of .033)

 

-if, with the tone at full the guitar still sounds muddy (I know.. there are different types of muddy) I try a higher value pot. (eg a 500k instead of a 250K)

 

last question.. does the guitar sound muddy unplugged? All the above is well and good but if you can only get a thud out of the guitar unplugged you wont get much out of it as an electric.

[j.zero]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the replies! Sorry to answer late, I forgot to check the email notification box...

 

@ Robin: The strings are quite new, and I'm not sure I can lower them more since the action is already quite low. But I'll try to get in touch with some of the pickups makers that you mentionned...

 

@ Sam: Then I said I replaced the pickup, I meant I had it replaced by a tech ....I'm not very good at this myself! Maybe changing the pots to 500k could be an alternative. But maybe you're right about the acoustic qualities of this guitar. Actually, I find it sound quite full compared to my other guitars, which is maybe not a good thing, since usually guitars that sound "thin" acoustically please me more when amplified that fuller sounding guitars...

 

In fact, the p-90 and p-100 have really different sounds: the p-90 is very mid-rangy with a lack of high end, while the p-100 is darker with tight low end, scooped mids and clear (but not piecrcing) highs. So I guess that changing the p-90 at the bridge could have a good impact...

 

Thanks for all your answers!

[milod]

Just one other thought...

 

A lotta older tube amps have a "bright" switch. I never use the thing myself, but... whew! It do add brightness and the highs up big time regardless of pickups on a given guitar.

 

m