Making sure bridge set up is correct on 335

[ToddS]

Hi All,

 

So the shop I bought my 335 from offer a free 're-set-up' after a month - whatever adjustments needs making after the break-in period, and a nice polish to boot.

 

So, as I've been perusing this forum (especially the 'show us your pics' thread) I've noticed plenty of variations in adjustment of the (sorry for lack of technical knowledge and names) 'little triangular bits on the bridge that the strings sit on'.

 

Below is how mine is currently set up. It seems for the top four strings all the little bits are slanting one way, and for the bottom two strings they slant the other way.

 

Any thing I should ask for when they guys service her?

 

 

Thanks.

 

Todd

[Ignatius]

Hey Todd--

 

Those "triangular bits" are called saddles. This will be easy to remember in the future: just like a saddle on a horse, these saddles allow the strings to "ride" the bridge, so to speak, and to stay in place.

 

It is not unusual at all that some of the saddles need to be inverted, especially on bridges that are attached to the guitar (rather than floating loose like on fully hollow-body guitars). Often, certain of the saddles need to be turned around for intonation's sake. If you look closely, you will see that one side of each saddle has an angle of about 45 degrees, while the other three sides are each straight up and down. If you reverse the saddle, you can set it so the flat side is aimed in the direction you need to move the saddle, and the flat side can get the string closer to the edge of the bridge than can the angled side. (As I said in another thread, this stuff is difficult to explain without pictures or diagrams.) This appears to be the case with some of your strings although it is hard to tell because the picture is take at an angle.

 

The saddles move forward and backward by adjusting the screws immediately attached to them on the bridge, and this movement allows you or your guitar tech to fine-tune the intonation of each string so that it is in tune with itself all along its length. This is a complex issue that we've discussed in other places on the forum so if you run a search on intonation, you'll find some of those discussions.

 

Short answer: ask your tech guy to make sure the intonation and action on the guitar are correct. Decide if you want a low or a high action. Low action places the strings closer to the neck and so improves speed of playing. A slightly higher action slows down speed but also allows the use of heavier strings and so improves sustain and tone. The lowest action possible is not always the best action for a given guitar or a given guitarist. Ask to talk through this with your tech person, and he or she should be able to advise you. It is important to clarify where you want your action first because every time you change the action (string height) on your guitar, you also change the intonation and so the saddles most likely will need to be tweaked.

 

If the tech doesn't see any need to invert the saddles in order to set your intonation and action correctly, then they are fine. If the place is a good shop, the tech people likewise will invert the saddles if they need to make things right.

 

Ignatius

[bobv]

It's not uncommon for the last two or three saddles to be reversed; mine came with the A and low E backwards in order to get the intonation right. However, now you're stuck with that arrangement - the strings were spaced by eye by the luthier who assembled the guitar, and they fall nicely with what feels like an even space between the centers of the strings (actually it's not, because that way the thick strings would seem crowded). Because the saddle notches are slightly off center in order to accomplish this, you cannot simply turn the saddles around.

 

Anyway, don't worry about it. The tech doing the setup should be able to handle it. On the other hand, ask how much the store charges and what they're going to do. New ES guitars are PLEK'd to level the frets before assembly, so they should not need any level or crown work done. Just an adjustment of the trussrod, the bridge height for action, the intonation, and that's it. Shouldn't need any nut slot work, either.

[Ignatius]

Because the saddle notches are slightly off center in order to accomplish this' date=' you cannot simply turn the saddles around.[/quote']

Just to clarify, bobv--

 

The above statement is true if the guitar is new and/or the bridge was set up by a detail-oriented luthier who uses blank saddles. If the bridge is an aftermarket bridge like a Gotoh, etc., then the saddles are all pre-cut with the notches running down the center of each saddle. Thus, not only can individual saddles be reversed, but actually the whole bridge can be reversed because the notches are all the same size in each saddle. This is very helpful in some cases because some older hollow-body guitars actually have easier access to fine-tuning if the saddle screws face the endpin rather than the neck.

 

I'm using a pre-cut Gotoh right now on my ES-125, and to be honest, the lower strings don't feel bunched up or crowded at all. I did need to cut the lower string notches a bit larger once the bridge was in place, but I found the Gotoh spacing more than adequate. On top of that, the Gotoh spacing set each string directly over the polepieces on the P-90. It's like a match pre-made in heaven. YMMV

 

And despite Gibson's claims to the contrary, I've found more than one factory-installed ABR-1 with all the saddles notched in the middle. So saddles often can be inverted.

 

Ignatius

[bobv]

All true. I was just trying to caution that you should double check the saddle before considering flipping it.

 

The sad truth is that if you don't have enough travel in your ABR-1 to get the intonation right, then you would be jonesing for a Nashville but with the original ABR-type thin posts threaded directly into the wood. Hey, wait a minute, the guys at TonePros did that already. I think they call it the improved ABR, and I'm looking into that now. Just waiting for the next string change to check the intonation with a fresh set before I decide.

[Ignatius]

All true. I was just trying to caution that you should double check the saddle before considering flipping it.

 

The sad truth is that if you don't have enough travel in your ABR-1 to get the intonation right' date=' then you would be jonesing for a Nashville but with the original ABR-type thin posts threaded directly into the wood. Hey, wait a minute, the guys at TonePros did that already. I think they call it the improved ABR, and I'm looking into that now. Just waiting for the next string change to check the intonation with a fresh set before I decide.[/quote']

Hey bobv--

 

Yes, and I should have added that you are also absolutely correct that one should make sure what you have before you start tweaking anything related to a bridge.

 

Hey, can you post a link to that TonePros improved ABR? I am okay with the Gotoh, but I am always on the lookout for something better. By the way, the Gotoh improved vintage ABR sells online for about $25-30 and makes much less noise than the ABR-1. It is a hybrid between the Nashville and the ABR-1: the screws and saddles are fit directly into the bridge (no wire holding them in place), and the saddles are a bit shorter like the Nashville. Unfortunately, the bridge still has the play around the posts like the ABR-1. I am on the lookout for any bridge that can improve the intonation and sustain at the same time. I liked the sound of the original wooden bridge the best, but it also had terrible intonation.

[bobv]

AVR-II has a little wire but it's just for appearance so it still looks like an original bridge. Meanwhile there is more adjustment room for the saddles and there are little setscrews holding the bridge tight on the posts. Also apparently the saddles don't lift when you adjust them.

 

http://www.tonepros.com/products.htm

 

The site has links to several sellers, and I've had very responsive service (phone and email) from Marquis Distributing. I haven't tried the AVR yet, but I do have one of their Nashville bridges (with large metric posts) on my Epiphone and it's very well made. They made it up with un-notched saddles for me (the whole idea was to improve the string spacing because the center-notched saddles on the OE import bridge put the strings too close to the edge of the fingerboard and they didn't even line up with the polepieces, but hey, the imported guitars are a whole nuther story. Then I have some of their split-shaft Kluson six-in-line tuners for another type of guitar that I can't talk about here...

[ToddS]

Thanks Guys - its 100% factory standard, all brand new ... and now that I have read all your replies I realied that my real question was in fact "How come the A and E string saddles are facing the opposite direction to all the others" ... which you've pretty much answered!!!

 

I think?

[Ignatius]

Thanks Guys - its 100% factory standard' date=' all brand new ... and now that I have read all your replies I realied that my real question was in fact "How come the A and E string saddles are facing the opposite direction to all the others" ... which you've pretty much answered!!!

 

I think?[/quote']

Yes, I think we've answered it, too! Maybe even over-answered it!

 

Ignatius