Effects Loop unnecessary in VJ?

[ppmcgee33]

Hello all. Being fresh to the tube amp world, I was looking to get a little more clarity on a particularly ambiguous issue. What purpose does an effects loop serve in low wattage tube amps. I have heard both sides of the argument. In my setup I would be using the valve jr. for clean and not overdriving the pre-amp. So besides directing "time based" effects away from distortion, what other purposes does a loop serve? I heard an opinion that stated it is beneficiary to your tone to put effects through a loop. Thoughts? Thanks for any advice.

[cGil]

You're right, time based fx work better after distortions.

 

A full send and return FX loop is good if you only have one amp to work with, and want a tube buffered input stage, as well as output stage. I would agree that half a preamp tube of amplification is not going to get you a lot of preamp type distortion. None in fact. But it is still just as nice to have the guitar talking directly to a tube through a grid stopper & grid leak resistor, as it is to have the speaker talking to a power tube through a good OT.

 

However! Yep, here it comes again. Time based fx DO work better after distortion. And yes, the distortion in the VJr comes mostly from the overdriven power tube!!! So, for the truly juicy FX you're simply gonna need more VJrs! That"s not too hard to justify now is it? One to crank up into lala land and generate that glorious fullblown overdriven tone for a DI/Slave Line Out to feed to a time-based FX box, and then out to the loop return jack of another amp except WITH a loop. So to do it truly right, you need one amp with a D.I./Slave Line Out sending the signal off the output transformer, and another amp with at least a loop return input jack. For some real hypnotic fun, use a stereo pair of amps for the wet fx, and put speakers in every corner of the room. Panners, rotarys, and ping pong delays will make your head spin, and the reverbs will freak you. And yet, even at it's craziest, you'll always have that 'pure' unadulterated tone of plugging straight in to your dry amp. Can't beat that with a stick! :D

 

Gil...

[ppmcgee33]

Very nice. Man that double vj idea sounds awesome. Makes a lot of sense too. So I am starting to determine that it is not imperative to have a loop even with time effects, but it is beneficial and can allow you to dial in some desirable sounds. Sound like a good conclusion?

[stumblinman]

I was interested in an effects loop mainly for reverb, as I don't want distorted reverb.

[ppmcgee33]

Cool name stumblinman...I'm in the same category

[51xt33]

I have a PODxt Live and wanted to know if an effects loop is necessary if I only plan on having the combo.

[cGil]

Having an fx loop means you can plug the POD XT into the fx return at line level, and just use the VJr as a power amp without coloring the modeled tones quite so much as with going though the extra (first) preamp stage. That's how I use mine, except the processor I use is a old Lexicon MPX G2 which is fed by a line out on the OT of another VJr.

 

And I hate to have to tell you guys this, but having your reverb 'processed' AFTER power tube distortion is a whole nother ballgame. And it can most definitely sound quite good even with a screaming crunchy high gain Mesa preamp driving the power tube into raging distortion, by the way. Deelicious!

 

I should add here that the trick is simply to get ALL of your distortion done first, then add reverb in just the right amount, but don't allow the amp that's amplifying the reverb-ified signal go into overdrive and distort and destroy all that beautiful reverb you've lathered on top.

 

Gil...

[51xt33]

thanks Gil.

So it is mainly the preamp that does the coloring (if i read ya right), or would change the sound of the modeled amp in my PODxt chain. So if I want to just use my xt as my "pedal board" then going straight in would be good. But if i want to use it as an amp/cabinet modeler, adding an fx loop would be the preferred way to go.

I don't have one of these gems yet, but plan on getting one real soon. I only plan on adding the fx loop and an attenuator on the mod.

[cGil]

thanks Gil.

So it is mainly the preamp that does the coloring (if i read ya right)' date=' or would change the sound of the modeled amp in my PODxt chain. So if I want to just use my xt as my "pedal board" then going straight in would be good. But if i want to use it as an amp/cabinet modeler, adding an fx loop would be the preferred way to go.

I don't have one of these gems yet, but plan on getting one real soon. I only plan on adding the fx loop and an attenuator on the mod.[/quote']

 

Not entirely! The preamp tube's two stages will color the signal, and mods will alter the tone's flavor, of course, but in the stock VJr, half of the true character of the amp's tone and most all of the distortion is generated by the power tube. The other half is in your OT and speaker. The preamp just defines how you get it there by manipulating and boosting the signal presented to the power tube for amplification. So just use the fx loop return input, and keep the volume below the point where the power tube's starting to break up. That'll keep the models sounding more like they're supposed to.

 

However, for absolute model accuracy (cold and clinically sterile as it may be), keep in mind that ANY tube/cab&speaker used will put its own color stamp on the model. This can be a good thing if done right. Line 6 knows this, or they wouldn't be trying to sell us modeling amps with tube power amps! Don't forget to turn OFF the cab simulations whenever using a real amp and speaker cab for live jams. Also, there's still a whole lot to be said for the tones available when using high gain models to overdrive a power tube with that POD. Sounds awesome to me, and it can get a lot louder than plugging straight in. YMMV.

 

Gil...