el-00 pt2 & 3

[jefleppard]

i just had mine into an guitar tech because i'm not satisfied with the intonation. i love the tone, its a riot to play and its pretty but a lot of notes pull sharp. so i took it in for an expert opinion. after doing some measurements, he assessed that the bridge was, quite simply, glued on about 3/16" too close to the neck. this caused the saddle to be too close as well. what he's doing for me is moving the saddle back and then doing a general setup from there. he's thinking that this should make a marked difference. and while its in there, i'm having the nut and saddle swapped out for bone. this guitar is already sweet but difficult to enjoy fully due to the unlivable intonation. i'm pretty picky about that. i joked to him that if i was a garage rocker, i wouldn't mind because that style is supposed to be somewhat out of tune!

does anyone else have one and notice the same problem?

i'll post an update when i get it back.

[theDeuce]

How far off was intonation at the 12th fret? I can only assume beyond what a compensated saddle would correct.

 

If intonated at the 12th fret, are most all other notes sharp? Notes near the nut can sound sharp compared to the open string if the string height at the nut isn't right. Notes in the upper end will sound sharp due to the string height change from simply fretting them. Also, worn frets will make the note sharp. (further distance to the fret.)

 

Were you using heavy gauge strings? You mentioned trying them on your AJ recently. Heavy strings are slightly less prone to going sharp when fretting.

 

And if you don't mind, I gotta ask, what's the charge for plugging the saddle slot and re-routing a new saddle slot?

 

 

Edit: If you are playing heavy strings on your other guitar and say lights on this guitar, you may be playing it with a stronger touch and that would cause the sharp notes too!

[jefleppard]

thanks for the reply, eGn. the notes were pulling sharp by about 10hz, so im guess that's about a 1/4 tone. i'm not a scientist though. the D string was the worst. the tech figured that the saddle was 3/16" too far forward at the low E and 1/8" at the high E. i think his approach will be to use a thicker saddle and carve it at the bottom to fit the original slot with some excess hanging over the back. i'll post pics when its done. i told him i didnt want to spend more than $100 and he said it should get done for around $50. i pick it up on monday. i cant wait. this is a very nice sounding $200 guitar. i love the tone. once its fixed properly, it should be amazing!

i hope.

[jefleppard]

i just got it back and have played it for about 4hrs. there has been a bit off a trade off here with the work.

as i mentioned earlier, the intonation was way off all the way down the neck. the tech moved the saddle back approx. 3/16" by routing the saddle slot to accomodate it. the tuning is almost perfect now all the way up. he replaced the stock plastic nut and saddle with a very old piece of bone nut and a newer, thicker (1/4") saddle. the guitar now has that fine, tight and bristly sound that much more expensive guitars have (ie blues king, nick lucas) but overall it has lost is cajones. i am a little sad because thats why i bought it. i even overlooked the poor intonation bec this guitar sounded so surprisingly huge for such a little thing. any suggestions on how to get that back? shoild i swap plastic back in?

i wanted to post my results to help other 00 owners who suffer from bad intonation. the tech told me the bridge was glued in the wrong spot, too close to the neck. if these are produced en mass, then there are probably 100s out there with the same problem. if you own one, you know the pleasure of this guitars unique sound but also, know that there is a solution for the intonation.

edit- i should also mention that the bone saddle makes the pickup sound fantastic, much better than before.

[Red 333]

Cunk,

 

As you speculate on the GIbson forum, the extreme thickness of that saddle might be robbing your 00 of some its volume (though it also amy be contribiting to that tight, muscular, sound. In my experience, when a saddle is moved, the extra space in the bridge is usually filled with an inlay of rosewood (or whatever the bridge is made out of), and a new (or the old) saddle of regular width is installed. that's not to say your lutheir didn't make the right call in your case, that's just what I've seen in the past, and Lord knows there's a lot I haven't seen, yet.

 

You know, you're describing a saddle width close to that of the venerable adjustable saddle, and those guitars often (but not always) sound the way you describe your 00--tight and bristly, but not loud. You shoud try some different strings, too. They often have a huge impact in volume and tone.

 

I'm sure you've already done this, but talk to your luthier about what you hear and like and don't like. Simply reshaping the saddle (how much of it comes in contact with the strings) can color the sound and effect the volume. I bet he or she is full of ideas.

 

Finally, I checked my EL00 the other day, and was pleasantly surprised how accurate tuning was up the neck. I'm gonna get out the straight edge and measure the scale one of these, days, though, as I'm still curious, in light of your story.

 

I went to the Arlington guitar show this weekend (the world's largest). You would have thought you died and went to heaven.

 

Red 333

[jefleppard]

Cunk' date='

 

As you speculate on the GIbson forum, the extreme thickness of that saddle might be robbing your 00 of some its volume (though it also amy be contribiting to that tight, muscular, sound. In my experience, when a saddle is moved, the extra space in the bridge is usually filled with an inlay of rosewood (or whatever the bridge is made out of), and a new (or the old) saddle of regular width is installed. that's not to say your lutheir didn't make the right call in your case, that's just what I've seen in the past, and Lord knows there's a lot I haven't seen, yet.

 

You know, you're describing a saddle width close to that of the venerable adjustable saddle, and those guitars often (but not always) sound the way you describe your 00--tight and bristly, but not loud. You shoud try some different strings, too. They often have a huge impact in volume and tone.

 

I'm sure you've already done this, but talk to your luthier about what you hear and like and don't like. Simply reshaping the saddle (how much of it comes in contact with the strings) can color the sound and effect the volume. I bet he or she is full of ideas.

 

Finally, I checked my EL00 the other day, and was pleasantly surprised how accurate tuning was up the neck. I'm gonna get out the straight edge and measure the scale one of these, days, though, as I'm still curious, in light of your story.

 

I went to the Arlington guitar show this weekend (the world's largest). You would have thought you died and went to heaven.

 

Red 333 [/quote']

 

thanks, red, for the reply. very informative. you are spot on. the tech told me to change the strings before i got carried away. he also refuses to reduce the width of the saddle and fill in the gap with RW as he's certain that wont change a thing. i rather like the electric improvement to the guitar, though i do suspect the tone robber here is the thick saddle. the guitar now sounds like a finger pickers wet dream. it is really sweet. my only complaint is the volume.

 

that arlington show has a storied folklore. i go to the michigan/detroit one every year and someone always mentions it. the mich one is nov 30th.

[jefleppard]

here's the done deal. like i said, it was a trade off. bass end fell off but i've never heard such a great acoustic plugged in. it sounds absolutely amazing through the clean channel on my orange rocker30 with some eq and reverb.