zarkus1281734228 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 I "inherited" an old (60's) Frontier. I haven't been able to pin down the exact year. The serial number is 2864. I'd greatly appreciate any advice/info on how to track down that number. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Hi Zarkus, according to "Epiphone the complete history" by Walter Carter, your serial of 2864, is in number batch 100-41199, and those belong to 1961. I hope this info helps, and what`s the chance`s of some photo`s? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarkus1281734228 Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 Thanks mucho for the input. I'll see if I can figure out how to post pix here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Thanks mucho for the input. I'll see if I can figure out how to post pix here. Hi Zarkus, has your Frontier got the adjustable bridge saddle (The one with a screw at each end) or is it just the normal saddle. The reason I ask is, if it is the latter, you may Have one of the first Kalamazoo made Epiphone Frontiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarkus1281734228 Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 OK, this is first stab at pix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted February 24, 2010 Share Posted February 24, 2010 Wow Zarkus, I didn`t expect it to look quite like that! The neck looks like it is a left over pre-Gibson one (does it have a centre stripe down the back of the neck?). The bridge is very interesting, is the white binding original?. I have a 62 Levin which is also a Spruce top & Maple back & sides, so I wonder if you can tell me how yours sounds, and what you think of your Frontier? My 62 Levin. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarkus1281734228 Posted February 24, 2010 Author Share Posted February 24, 2010 The pix make it look a bit cleaner than it really is. What's in the worst condition is the case and the tuning pegs. It does have a white stripe on the back of the neck. Can't say about the binding, but everything about it appears original. The neck and frets are in very good condition, and despite a lot of neglect over the past few decades, the guitar is very playable and sounds great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt the Cat Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Maybe being a bit dumb, but why's it got a Hummingbird pickguard? Looks like a nice guitar tho......... Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarkus1281734228 Posted February 25, 2010 Author Share Posted February 25, 2010 I guess the real question is, was the pickguard put on at the factory or was it swapped in later? I have no idea how to get an answer to that, and I don't know if it even matters from value standpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship of fools Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Well wrong pick guard should really have any and please can you take pictures of the back of the head and the neck, your Frontier may aqctually be a F-110 which will make it older then the dating you have. dread style body with solid spruce top and Curly Maple back and sides and it should have a 5 piece cherry neck with the serial nimber stamped into the back of the head block I would spend a few bucks to have that bridge put back right the extra piece in there for the E string is way to forward and I know mine never came or had a pickguard ever also the tuners should be open back tuners also could you measure the body width, the pictures almost make it look like a Jumbo ( the Jumbo's were made between 49-58 and were caled the F-110 )Ship.... I know I sure miss mine was a great player when I would play it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarkus1281734228 Posted February 25, 2010 Author Share Posted February 25, 2010 Body width is 16, and there is no serial no. on back of head. Sorry for my ignorance, but why fix the bridge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeper Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 For some weird reason you have two saddles on your e string. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Zarkus, that particular style of Blue label, without the large margin, was used on Gibson made Epiphones between 58-61. The neck looks like a proper pre-Gibson factory one, and Gibson did use up all the leftover parts made by the old Epiphone factory. Early Kalamazoo made Texans, have that kind of neck as well, so does the Sheraton. My gut feeling, is that, this guitar is all original (Inc pickguard), and is a very early Gibson made Frontier, I know for a fact, that the adjustable saddle was brought in, in 62, and prior to 1958, the Frontier model was an FT100, so if your label says FT110, it is no later than 58! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarkus1281734228 Posted February 25, 2010 Author Share Posted February 25, 2010 Thanks for the added info Frenchie. The model no. on the label is FT110N (N=natural). So your supposing "no later than '58" despite the '61 indicated by the serial number? I have to admit, that's a pretty wierd range of serial numbers corresponding to '61. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike54 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Another Hummingbird related question... In addition to the HB pick guard, the fret markers have a big "H" in the middle of the inlay. It looks like the label is in great shape, and I'm sure you have your model number right. Any chance you could take a closer shot of the label? I tried to cut, paste, and zoom, but it didn't show everything on the label. Just curious. Great looking guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship of fools Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Definetely not a FT-100, the FT110 was renamed frontier by Gibson in 58 and no they never came with any pickguard in 58 the first Hummingbirds introduce by Gibson was in 1960 if memory serves ( ???? ) so that pickguard was an aftermarket item and the neck is ????? should be a 5 piece not a 3 piece like that but its not the first time they used parts from one to make another.Oh well well just have to guess at this one.Ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeper Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 I would venture to say the pick guard and bridge are not original. Can you provide a better pick of the tuners? I can't tell if they are replacements or just rotten. I agree with the previous statement as being between 58 and 61. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarkus1281734228 Posted February 25, 2010 Author Share Posted February 25, 2010 The tuners look original and seem kind of deteriorated. Maybe the material has reacted with something or just dampness has worked on them over time. Can they "rot"? The only shot I have is blurry. Also include a better shot of the label. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeper Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Oh yea those old keys can rot. It happens all the time. If its a player then you can easily replace just the knobs and age them a bit so it don't stand out too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted February 25, 2010 Share Posted February 25, 2010 Thanks for the added info Frenchie. The model no. on the label is FT110N (N=natural). So your supposing "no later than '58" despite the '61 indicated by the serial number? I have to admit' date=' that's a pretty wierd range of serial numbers corresponding to '61.[/quote'] Gibson/Epiphone, Did their serial numbers in blocks, and they are not always in sequence, so I will give you what it says in Walter Carter`s book, Gibson made Kalamazoo 1958-60 number on label inside guitar. A-1000..........1958 A-2000..........1959 A-3000..........c 1960-early 61 Solid bodies 1958-60 number inked onto back of headstock. 8..........1958 9..........1959 0..........1960 all models 1960-69 Number pressed into back of headstock. 100-41199..........1961 41200-61180..........1962 but you als get 71180-95846 for 62 as well. 61450-64222..........1963 but you also get 95849-99999 and 106100-108999 for 63 as well, plus others! 64240-70501..........1964 but then you also get152990-174222 and 179099-199999 for 64 as well, plus others! Your serial fits 1961, and I know your number isn`t stamped into the back of the headstock, but if an old stock Epiphone neck was being used, that may explain why. What you do have though, is a model number (FT110) which is no later than 58, a Label that was only produced in the years 58 through to and including 61, and a serial number on that label, that places your guitar in 1961! The oldest photo of an FT110 I have seen is from 1962, and the specs were changed that year anyway, so as a reference to your guitar, a 62 may be irrelevant. Ship of fools says that the Gibson made Frontier model (FT-110) of 58 didn`t have a pickguard, then it maybe this model didn`t get a pickguard until 62, when the specs changed, in which case your pickguard would be a later addition. However if that particular style of pickguard came into being in 1960, then it is quite possible, that it may have been used as a factory fit item on your 61! (Gibson did things like that). Pickguards did change throughout the 60`s on Epiphone guitars. From 62-66 the Frontier had the large Cactus & rope one, then from 66-69 the more common squared off "Comma" type, which they started screwing to the top (God forbid!) in 1968. So as you can see anything is possible! But my money is on yours being a 61. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarkus1281734228 Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 Well thanks to all who weighed in this guitar. I've learned a bit more about it, although nagging questions remain that probably can never be answered. Looking at the shape of the typical Frontier pickguard versus the Hummingbird, it seems like it would look fairly obvious if one was replaced for the other after the fact because they're so different in shape. But why they would have been swapped out at the factory seems a mystery too. BTW, what are those tuning pegs made of that makes them rot over time? Thanks again for everyone's help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted February 26, 2010 Share Posted February 26, 2010 That certainly is an old Epi flat top. The extra bit of saddle might have been a luthier;s way of compensating the intonation of that one string. It's odd that only that one is out. It could be an abberation with that one, individual string. Put new wires on her and see how she intonates. You might find this interesting: http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/catalogues.php Select the 1961 catalogue The Frontier was indeed an FT110. I'm not seeing an H'bird in that catalogue, though. Hypothesis... is it possible the H'bird, back then, was not an individual model but an upgrade of the Frontier? That guard certainly looks to be from the correct period. I wouldn't remove that guard until you learn more about the H'bird's history. Those markers are of a type I've never seen. The fact that there is a letter "H" in there makes me believe the Hummingbird guard is OEM. The Keystones appear to be suffering from celluloid rot... or whatever plastic material they're made of. Plastics did not and do not last as long as other materials. I'd use them until they broke away from their spindles. They may look rought, but they may be solid for a while longer. Keep them away from sunlight as UV rays degrade it. Post a query over on the Gibson acoustics board. KSDADDY bought and sold guitars for years and is quite knowledgable. Most of those Gibby boys cut their eye teeth on Wilshires, Scrolls, Excellentes and Frontiers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zarkus1281734228 Posted February 26, 2010 Author Share Posted February 26, 2010 Thanks much TommyK. That site you provided the link to does have a lot of interesting content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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