dvd5300 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 I'd like to buy an acoustic vintage (40's 50's) Gibson such as an ES 300, L5, L7. I prefer a cutaway but the price for non cutaway fits my budget, so that's been my focus. I've only played on, but have heard several on youtube. Why do some (all) of these instruments sound so brassy? They seem to lack any low end. Is that by design? Any way to get more bass out of them...flat wound strings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 The woody mid-rangey projection of an archtop guitar IS by design. These were originally designed as "orchestra" accompaniment instruments, and to "blend" and be heard, their sound is focused in the low mid-range department. The booming bass was not needed because it would clash with the upright bass, and the jingly highs were not needed because of the trumpets and saxophones. The archtop orchestra guitar was a "voiced" instrument to fill a particular frequency range. A perfect example of this can be heard on almost any recording by the Count Basie Orchestra. Guitarist Freddie Green always played an acoustic archtop (usually a 17" or 18" Stromberg), and can be heard perfectly cutting through the 16-piece band in that "assigned" frequency range. As for emphasizing the bass, a set of heavy gauge flatwounds will certainly help (I use 14-67 on my L-7 and L-5CES). Last summer my blues band was headlining a big outdoor concert. I use my 1947 L-7 (with a pickguard mounted Benedetto pickup) for our acoustic set. During soundcheck the "young" sound engineer, who'd probably never even seen a big archtop guitar before, said the guitar sounded muddy to him and he couldn't get any highs out of it. I replied that that's what a 65 year old archtop is supposed to sound like, and don't try to make it sound like a flattop. As the recordings show, the archtop blended perfectly with the brass bodied dobro of the other guitarist. The sound of a big bodied archtop is certainly an acquired taste, and not for everybody. The development of my sound gradually (over nearly 40 years) went from solid bodies, to thinline semi's, to full bodied archtops as my tastes and the music I played changed. My '47 L-7 would probably be the "pry it from my cold dead hands" guitar of the ones I currently own. If I ever hit the lottery and could afford buy another one, it would be a 1947 L-5P, which I would outfit with the same floating pickup as my L-7. Good luck in your search. There is currently a pretty beat-up 50's L-5 on ebay right now at a reasonable price. It has a week or so to go in the auction, so the "affordability" may change. The L-7 was kind of known as the poor man's L-5, and is a great guitar and value comparatively, if you don't require the "bling". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvd5300 Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 The woody mid-rangey projection of an archtop guitar IS by design. These were originally designed as "orchestra" accompaniment instruments, and to "blend" and be heard, their sound is focused in the low mid-range department. The booming bass was not needed because it would clash with the upright bass, and the jingly highs were not needed because of the trumpets and saxophones. The archtop orchestra guitar was a "voiced" instrument to fill a particular frequency range. A perfect example of this can be heard on almost any recording by the Count Basie Orchestra. Guitarist Freddie Green always played an acoustic archtop (usually a 17" or 18" Stromberg), and can be heard perfectly cutting through the 16-piece band in that "assigned" frequency range. As for emphasizing the bass, a set of heavy gauge flatwounds will certainly help (I use 14-67 on my L-7 and L-5CES). Last summer my blues band was headlining a big outdoor concert. I use my 1947 L-7 (with a pickguard mounted Benedetto pickup) for our acoustic set. During soundcheck the "young" sound engineer, who'd probably never even seen a big archtop guitar before, said the guitar sounded muddy to him and he couldn't get any highs out of it. I replied that that's what a 65 year old archtop is supposed to sound like, and don't try to make it sound like a flattop. As the recordings show, the archtop blended perfectly with the brass bodied dobro of the other guitarist. The sound of a big bodied archtop is certainly an acquired taste, and not for everybody. The development of my sound gradually (over nearly 40 years) went from solid bodies, to thinline semi's, to full bodied archtops as my tastes and the music I played changed. My '47 L-7 would probably be the "pry it from my cold dead hands" guitar of the ones I currently own. If I ever hit the lottery and could afford buy another one, it would be a 1947 L-5P, which I would outfit with the same floating pickup as my L-7. Good luck in your search. There is currently a pretty beat-up 50's L-5 on ebay right now at a reasonable price. It has a week or so to go in the auction, so the "affordability" may change. The L-7 was kind of known as the poor man's L-5, and is a great guitar and value comparatively, if you don't require the "bling". That makes perfect sense. I basically want to own a vintage L7 because it was the first guitar I owned. Bought a '47 at a music store in Oakland, CA (circa 1978) for $350. Then promptly sold it two years later for down payment on a car for my wife. I might visit Chicago Music Exchange and play the lot that they have, just to get an idea on the sound; ebay purchase later. I saw a 1935 L5 with P90. Currently at 3K with 4 days to go. I suppose they are, in good condition, worth 6K. Thanks for your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Here's a '47 L-7 currently on e-bay, although overpriced: http://cgi.ebay.com/nice-1947-GIBSON-L-7-ARCHTOP-GUITAR-A-996-/370469861787?pt=Guitar&hash=item5641b9799b A post-war L-7 should sell for between 2K & 3K depending on condition, etc, and most likely on the LOW end of that scale. Here's an L-7C that is also way overpriced: http://cgi.ebay.com/1963-GIBSON-L-7C-fully-acoustic-Cutaway-Jazz-guitar-/370430361615?pt=Guitar&hash=item563f5ec00f Keep in mind, vintage high priced (overpriced) guitars are not selling at the moment. In the textbook definition of the phrase, it really is currently a "buyers market". If you find something you really like, make an offer, you just might be pleasantly surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvd5300 Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Here's a '47 L-7 currently on e-bay, although overpriced: http://cgi.ebay.com/nice-1947-GIBSON-L-7-ARCHTOP-GUITAR-A-996-/370469861787?pt=Guitar&hash=item5641b9799b A post-war L-7 should sell for between 2K & 3K depending on condition, etc, and most likely on the LOW end of that scale. Here's an L-7C that is also way overpriced: http://cgi.ebay.com/1963-GIBSON-L-7C-fully-acoustic-Cutaway-Jazz-guitar-/370430361615?pt=Guitar&hash=item563f5ec00f Keep in mind, vintage high priced (overpriced) guitars are not selling at the moment. In the textbook definition of the phrase, it really is currently a "buyers market". If you find something you really like, make an offer, you just might be pleasantly surprised. Good advice. Your right about "buyer's market". I have no problem with offering a lower amount on a guitar. ebay auctions are set up such that you bid against people with deep pockets. Unless I'm holding the guitar, it is hard to commit to top dollar. I only buy from credible sellers with 1-3 day return policy. On a side note, that guitar leaning against the brick really drives me nuts. I have seen that before, where someone leans a beautiful guitar against some nasty, hard surface such as face down on cement. Ahh! Then they say, "I want $4,800". Sorry for the rant. I need to play half a dozen and see if it's something to proceed with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twofeets Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 There's a very nicely refinished non-cutaway Gibson L7 in the acoustic room at Sam Ash Music on SR 50 (East Colonial Drive) in Orlando, FL. I think the price on it was very affordable, I believe it was $2500 the last time I checked (maybe $3500 though), I could be wrong. Stuff like that doesn't attract much attention around here, and the fact that they have it strung up with very heavy acoustic strings doesn't help matters, so it just sits there looking pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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