Vinny1057 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Hi everyone. I have an Epiphone Les Paul standard plus top and for a while now one of the machine heads has come loose, i ignored it. It would come of occasionally and i would lazily screw it back on. But it has started to get REALLY hard to turn the machine head and it wont screw back on. The plastic has becom deformed here: And this piece sticks out more than the others (sorry i don't know any of the names): Does anyone know if i can fix this? If i have to replace it then do i need to get a specific size? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 If you're missing the screw, washer and button, you'll probably have to purchase a new set of tuners and replace the two that have missing parts. Although you can buy Grover buttons, I've not seen the screws and washers sold separately. That being said, if you contact Grover, maybe they'll send you the parts you're missing. Be careful when you re-order, because those tuners (Grover Rotomatics) come in both chrome and nickel finishes, so be sure you know which one your guitar has, if you want them to match. Chrome is brighter and Nickel has a little of a yellowish hue - used more on vintage instruments. Many of the Epiphone Les Paul reissues, do use nickel vs, chrome. You can look your model-up on the Epiphone website and find the hardware finish there. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny1057 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 If you're missing the screw, washer and button, you'll probably have to purchase a new set of tuners and replace the two that have missing parts. Although you can buy Grover buttons, I've not seen the screws and washers sold separately. That being said, if you contact Grover, maybe they'll send you the parts you're missing. Be careful when you re-order, because those tuners (Grover Rotomatics) come in both chrome and nickel finishes, so be sure you know which one your guitar has, if you want them to match. Chrome is brighter and Nickel has a little of a yellowish hue - used more on vintage instruments. Many of the Epiphone Les Paul reissues, do use nickel vs, chrome. You can look your model-up on the Epiphone website and find the hardware finish there. Hope this helps. Thanks but i have the screw washer and button. I just had them off to show the black piece of plastic that has been misshapen. But thanks for the info on the buttons. I just wonder why the button wont screw back on and if it can be fixed or if i have to buy another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Try pressing the protruding piece on the right back into place, installing the washer and button and screwing the button back on to the shaft. If that's not working, something else might be out of kilter. You can always try calling Epiphone if your guitar is still under warranty - they might also be able to supply you a couple of tuners. My guess is you probably aren't the first one with a tuner problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny1057 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 The piece wont slot back into place and I got my guitar nearly a year ago new of ebay so i'm not quite sure about the warranty. Anyway i think i might just have to buy another machine head. I have found one on ebay but i'm not sure if it is the right one. It's a Grover and it says it is for an Epiphone guitar but i'm still not sure. Any specific size or info i should look for? Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 You're on the right track - buy a couple of tuners and if you're not sure how to replace them yourself, stop-by a local Epiphone dealer and ask for a quick repair. Some shops will do that stuff in a day or tow, if not on the spot. Just compare what you have to what you're buying - but look for Grover Rotomatics (full size, not the mini version.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny1057 Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 ok thanks allot for the help , just going to replace the faulty one. I'm In France right now and i'm sure there's no Epiphone dealers here so i'm just gonna have to do it myself, seems pretty simple. Oh and while your here with your Superior knowledge what is the best brand of electric guitar string? I have been using Elixir but I've been wondering if there is better. Again thank you and i hope i'm not boreing you with my questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 According to the Epiphone website, a Les Paul Standard uses chrome hardware. So, you should look for Chrome Grover Full-Size Rotomatics. That should work out fine for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kong Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I've had great luck with Guitar Fetish. I've used their tuners, pickups, knobs etc. Here is a compatible set for a pretty reasonable price: http://www.guitarfetish.com/Full-Size-Grover-Style-Chrome-3x3-Tuners_p_278.html Good luck with your repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bill Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Hi, Vinny.. a few comments regarding what appears to be happening. Generally, strings are wound around the pegs from the center of the headstock. If your strings are wound around the outside of the tuning pegs, the string tension will put force on the button stem which will apply the pressure of the internal gear mesh to push the button stem out the backside of the machinehead (tuner). With the strings wound from the center of the headstock, as they should be, the string tension will apply the pressure in a way that the button stem will be pushed outward, toward the button. The screw in the button extends into the button stem, and when the screw is securely tightened, the button will hold the tuner stem in it's proper position/place. If your strings are wound from the center of the headstock, then it appears that there is likely an internal fault with the tuner mechanism, because the button stem shouldn't be being forced out the back of the tuner. By loosening "all" of the string tension from that string, then pushing the button stem back into the tuner from the backside of the headstock, the button stem should extend fully* so the button and screw can be reassembled.. then the tuner should operate normally. * If the button stem can't be pushed out to extend fully, there is probably a piece of the internal parts broken off inside, so probably a good indication that a new tuner is needed. The silvery hardware on Epiphones is nickel since about the year 2000 (maybe longer), not chrome (although Epiphone and many sellers call it chrome, it's not). There might be many sources of parts that don't distinguish the difference between nickel and chrome.. for a lot of folks, shiney, flashy and silvery mean chrome and nothing else. If you should need another Grover (or any other recently manufactured brand name part), it will very likely match what you already have, unless the actual manufacturer specifically states nickel finish/plating. Making sure that the tuner button screws are securely snug, should be done before string tension is applied (strings off, such as with every string change). If the button is loose when the screw seems to be tight enough, then the button stem or the screw may be defective (not threading into the button stem far enough to be snugged/tightened properly). When a tuner is properly assembled, there should be very smooth movement of the tuning peg, and the movement of the button should be free of any tight spots while rotating. As a side note.. those low-cost lowly stock tuners with the stamped steel covers which have been around for decades, wouldn't have come apart like this Grover "premium" sealed diecast tuner did. Those older low-cost stock all-metal tuners rarely fail, and can easily be serviced and/or repaired, and are very reliable. Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny1057 Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Brilliant thanks for all the info! Now there is no movement of the tuning peg, it just turns with no effect. So i cant loosen the string to push the button stem back into place. I am just going to buy another. Do you think i should replace all of the machine heads? It seems to be much better value for money buying a complete set of Grover machine heads. Really appreciate the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Bill Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Brilliant thanks for all the info! Now there is no movement of the tuning peg, it just turns with no effect. So i cant loosen the string to push the button stem back into place. I am just going to buy another. Do you think i should replace all of the machine heads? It seems to be much better value for money buying a complete set of Grover machine heads. Really appreciate the help. If the tuner is jammed I would just cut the string, as it will need to be removed anyway. Cutting the string may allow the stem for the button to be pushed back into it's correct place.. which may restore operation of the tuner when the button is reinstalled and the screw is secure. Was that string wound around the tuning peg (top stem with the hole in it) from the outside or inside/center of the headstock? I only suggested this may have been the problem since one of the used Epiphone G-310 SG models I bought was strung this way. The button stems weren't pushed out, like what happened to yours, but I saw that the string tension could cause a problem like that (same style of sealed diecast tuners, but generic, not Grovers). The particular arrangement of the internal parts in tuners is referred to as a worm gear: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worm_gear As the button is turned by the user, the peg's rotation advances to apply tension to the string. If the string is wound around the peg from the opposite side, the string tension is attempting to push the button stem (worm shaft) out of the back of the tuner housing, like your situation shows. I couldn't find an example of the actual parts of a guitar tuner, maybe someone can add one. FWIW, some musical instrument retail stores (and eBag sellers) sell individual strings, so any time a string breaks one doesn't need to take a string out of a new set. Guitar machineheads/tuners don't generally fail, but I haven't see what materials are used in the newer style or Grover tuners, so if the gear is plastic (regardless of what high-tech name they may give it) or diecast potmetal, they may be far less reliable than the older steel worm with brass gear types of tuners.. so your purchasing selections are your choice. Regards, Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted August 30, 2011 Share Posted August 30, 2011 Lafty Bill's info is good but a little lengthy. Let me try to give you the condensed version. By taking the button off YOU have allow the worm gear shaft to thread itself out of the housing. The button IS what holds the shaft in place. This is how they are assembled, this is why it came apart. The reason the shaft is locked up and the shaft spins freely is that the gears are no longer in contact or alignment, and the worm gear shaft is wedged in the housing. Put the button back on the shaft (without screw) and lightly push the plug end of the shaft back in while turning the button. You should be able to tell by feel which way to turn the peg. Once you get the plug end back seated properly into the case, the screw on the button will thread back into it's proper place. There should be no need for any replacement costs. In the future DO NOT disassemble your tuners to polish them, just give them a wipe down while in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny1057 Posted August 30, 2011 Author Share Posted August 30, 2011 What probobly caused the problem was that my strings USED to be strung around the peg on the outside. I took no note of it at the time but now i see that it probobly caused damage. I have never Taken apart the machine head for polishing and the stem is deformed and the button wont turn at all. I have orderd a replacement and a new set of strings (wich i needed anyway). When the strings arrive i will cut the string wich is attached to the deffective tuner and i will try to repair it. If it cant be then i will just replace it. Thank you all for your help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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