339 Nut Problem

[KDRR]

On my 339 Nut, it`s not Bone. If it was , I`m not changing out Bone for Bone. My Tech guy thinks its soft and thats why it keeps locking up. If it didn`t lock up I could live with the spacing. I hear people on this board say different things about what Gibson material Gibson uses for their Nuts but I`d like to hear more opinions about it. K

 

 

 

I emailed the Tusq xl People and this is what I said.

 

I have a Gibson 339 , I`m having problems with the Nut. The G string locks up ...ect. Now on Gibson 339`s there have been complaints about the high E slipping off the neck. What Nut would you recommend for the 339 and if its slotted would this correct the problem? Have you heard about the nut problem with 339`s? I`m having my Tech put on a bone nut and fix the spacing but I`m interested into what you think and I may use your tusq xl nut. Thanks Keith

[Aerial Man]

On my 339 Nut, it`s not Bone. If it was , I`m not changing out Bone for Bone. My Tech guy thinks its soft and thats why it keeps locking up. If it didn`t lock up I could live with the spacing. I hear people on this board say different things about what Gibson material Gibson uses for their Nuts but I`d like to hear more opinions about it. K

 

 

 

I emailed the Tusq xl People and this is what I said.

 

I have a Gibson 339 , I`m having problems with the Nut. The G string locks up ...ect. Now on Gibson 339`s there have been complaints about the high E slipping off the neck. What Nut would you recommend for the 339 and if its slotted would this correct the problem? Have you heard about the nut problem with 339`s? I`m having my Tech put on a bone nut and fix the spacing but I`m interested into what you think and I may use your tusq xl nut. Thanks Keith

 

Good call. The E is slipping off because of the E to E string spacing on your nut. When looking for a replacement nut for my 137 I found that the Gibson replacement slotted Tusq XL nut had incorrect E to E spacing for my guitar (you need about 1/8 of an inch gap from the edge of the fretboard at the nut), so I used a Tusq XL Epiphone slotted replacement which worked perfect but the shape is slightly different at the front edge and leaves a small gap at the headstock on my guitar.

 

Which takes me up to where I am now. I have ordered an unslotted and unshaped Tusq XL nut blank (part number pql-4000-00) and a string spacing rule from Stew Mac to completely make one from scratch. The great thing about this is also that you can choose exactly the string spacing you want, and if like me you find the E strings slipping off the neck as you play you can place the E to E spacing closer together and use the Stew Mac tool to get the perfect spacing for the rest of the slots. I am now convinced this is the best way to make a nut.

 

The original nut in my 137 was definately made from bone, it looked exactly like a bone nut and it chipped and splintered like bone when I knocked it out carefully with a screwdriver and hammer. (dont forget to score the finish around the nut with an x-acto knife so it comes out cleanly)

[KDRR]

Good call. The E is slipping off because of the E to E string spacing on your nut. When looking for a replacement nut for my 137 I found that the Gibson replacement slotted Tusq XL nut had incorrect E to E spacing for my guitar (you need about 1/8 of an inch gap from the edge of the fretboard at the nut), so I used a Tusq XL Epiphone slotted replacement which worked perfect but the shape is slightly different at the front edge and leaves a small gap at the headstock on my guitar.

 

Which takes me up to where I am now. I have ordered an unslotted and unshaped Tusq XL nut blank (part number pql-4000-00) and a string spacing rule from Stew Mac to completely make one from scratch. The great thing about this is also that you can choose exactly the string spacing you want, and if like me you find the E strings slipping off the neck as you play you can place the E to E spacing closer together and use the Stew Mac tool to get the perfect spacing for the rest of the slots. I am now convinced this is the best way to make a nut.

 

The original nut in my 137 was definately made from bone, it looked exactly like a bone nut and it chipped and splintered like bone when I knocked it out carefully with a screwdriver and hammer. (dont forget to score the finish around the nut with an x-acto knife so it comes out cleanly)

 

 

They have a 1-800 number I may call. Are the nuts for the 137 and 339 the same?

[Aerial Man]

They have a 1-800 number I may call. Are the nuts for the 137 and 339 the same?

 

I think to a degree all nuts are going to be very slightly different, I dont know if these nuts are all the same out of a box or made with each guitar. My 137 has a slim tapered neck I believe but cant be so sure.

[endpin]

The Plek machine does them all pretty much the same:

 

From here

 

“We use the PLEK for fret finishing and for cutting nut slots,” says Matthew Klein of the Gibson Custom Shop. “First, it reads [measures] a guitar’s neck and frets, which it’s able to do to an accuracy of a thousandth of a millimeter, then it machines [files] them to an accuracy of a hundredth of a millimeter.” The scan itself records a wealth of data about each individual guitar, including the height of each fret from the fingerboard, each fret’s individual radius, fingerboard radius, neck pitch and relief (bow), nut and bridge alignment, and much, much more. The PLEK can even tell its operating technician whether a truss rod adjustment is required before optimum fret dressing can be achieved, and once it has measured all the frets in such detail—and dressed them—the machine knows exactly how to cut the nut for optimum string spacing and slot height in relation to the fret height and the edges of the fingerboard. All of this is achieved with access to a myriad of different software packages that the PLEK references according to the type of set up desired, the guitar’s string gauge and scale length, neck curve, and other significant factors.

 

Gibson now has two PLEK machines, each of which takes approximately 15 minutes to complete a guitar. The PLEK system was first used on the Custom Shop’s Les Pauls, then the SG line got the treatment. Now, says Klein, the entire Custom Shop electric guitar range gets PLEKed.

[BigKahune]

The Plek machine does them all pretty much the same ......

 

Let's not forget it's a robotic machine. I've worked with computerized robotic machines and the operator of the machine has to make sure it is maintained well and calibrated correctly or all the talk about cutting the nut for optimum string spacing and slot height in relation to the fret height and the edges of the fingerboard goes out the window.

[Aerial Man]

The new Tusq XL nut blank came the other day. I have taken some photo's to show how the Epiphone Nut (pql-6060-00) leaves a gap, and how the replacement Tusq XL blank (pql-4000-00) is a perfect replacement for the original nut. It will require more work than a pre slotted nut, but in the end it's worth having a correctly fitting and perfectly shaped nut.

 

And so here you can see the gap that is left by using the pql-6060-00. I tried this Epiphone replacement because the supposed Gibson Tusq XL nut had the E-E spacing too wide, my outer E strings would have been falling off the fretboard.

 

Here the replacement blank pql-4000-00 being sanded down to the right size to fit the slot. First I smoothed the front side very quickly, and then took material off the back side until the nut just fits the slot sliding freely. Im sanding on a flat surface and keeping my fingers in the middle to apply even pressure when sanding. It did not take long to get it to fit perfect.

 

 

No gaps on this one!

 

So now ill get to work choosing the string spacing and some shaping to do to get this looking like a nut. In the meantime ive got another picture of the bridge showing you the radiused and smooth saddles :-)

 

[Aerial Man]

Ok So I have now reached the stage where you would be at if you were using a bought pre slotted nut. Ill show you how I got here There are alot of pictures so ive kept them small but you can click on them to enlarge.

 

First of all I find a suitable string spacing for the nut using the Stew Mac tool and using a sharp pencil I mark these onto the back of the nut blank.

 

Then start off your slots with your files or whatever else you use to start them off. Always file in such a way as to create a good smooth string angle, and a clean take off point for the strings.

 

Double check that your grooves are not going off course as you go down through the material. Dont go too deep at this stage. For now just take it slowly and bit by bit things start to come together.

 

Ok so now with some 240 grit on a flat surface, im going to take some off the sides to get the ruff cut length slightly large. This is only to help me work easier for now, I will finish the final fit size last before polishing.

 

I also just quickly take the burrs from the bottom of the Tusq XL nut with some more 240 grit so that it can sit best in the slot. As you can see my chosen string spacing leaves about an 1/8 of an inch from the edges of the fretboard, you may prefer more or less of a gap than I do. If you need to adjust the string spacing at all, now is the time to do it before you go through too much nut material.

[Aerial Man]

Now we are getting there. On the left the nut I am working on, and on the right the previous working but 'ill fitting' Epiphone replacement.

 

Now because I know the previous nut was fine in the functional sense. I also know that the slot depths are OK too, so im using a flat surface and a very sharp pencil to mark the slot depths onto the back of the new nut from the old one (carefully line up the right slots). If your old nut caused buzzing at the first fret, dont rely on the old slots, go slower and take more care here. In this case I had a lot of material to cut through and wanted to do it quickly. You could take more time.

 

Here now I am taking the slots down just nearly to the bottom of the pencil marks I made. I will get the final action height set later.

 

Once those slots are down nearly to the marks I made it's time to do some rough shaping to the top of the nut, slowly bringing it into shape to expose the slots. This will also make the final filing easier as the deep slot sides start to jam on the files. You should always cover any of the finish with blue tape that you might scratch up by accident with sandpaper and files.

 

And here we now have the equivelant of a bought pre slotted nut, but instead this one is slotted to fit properly and to how I like it. I am not finished yet though! I will set the final action heights and carry out the final shaping and fitting, but for now Ive had enough lol

[rolling56]

How did you determine/mark the radius of the nut slots after you marked the nut for the slots? I don't see your radius marks in other words.

 

Also what did you do to determine the slot depth for action at the nut?

 

Just a couple questions i thought i would ask.

[KDRR]

I thought alot about the Tusq Nut but I`m having a Bone Nut put on a I`ll have the E to E spacing fixed too. On my 339 my low E was into the fretboard more and my high E need to be farther in on the fretboard. Hes going to fix that and I`ll get it back on Sat. You`ll be hearing from me. Keith

[Aerial Man]

How did you determine/mark the radius of the nut slots after you marked the nut for the slots? I don't see your radius marks in other words.

 

Also what did you do to determine the slot depth for action at the nut?

 

Just a couple questions i thought i would ask.

 

No worries rolling56, it's good you should ask seeing as thats the next step. The feeler gauges come out, the action heights are set and as a direct result of that the radius falls perfectly into place

 

I probably will get this done over the weekend now as I will not have time tommorow. But ill keep you posted.

[Aerial Man]

I thought alot about the Tusq Nut but I`m having a Bone Nut put on a I`ll have the E to E spacing fixed too. On my 339 my low E was into the fretboard more and my high E need to be farther in on the fretboard. Hes going to fix that and I`ll get it back on Sat. You`ll be hearing from me. Keith

 

Good to hear it's being sorted

[rolling56]

No worries rolling56, it's good you should ask seeing as thats the next step. The feeler gauges come out, the action heights are set and as a direct result of that the radius falls perfectly into place

 

I probably will get this done over the weekend now as I will not have time tommorow. But ill keep you posted.

 

yes please carry on. I want to see your method.

 

I got one of these the other day http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/product/2003

 

and have these for making the radius on nuts if needed http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Neck,_fingerboard/Radius_Gauges.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=1572

[Aerial Man]

yes please carry on. I want to see your method.

 

I got one of these the other day http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/product/2003

 

and have these for making the radius on nuts if needed http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Neck,_fingerboard/Radius_Gauges.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=1572

 

Nice gear there rolling56, I imagine that action gauge would make things less fiddly. My method uses cheap feeler gauges with no need for a radius gauge because all of your measurements come up from the fretboard, and so all of the slots arc over the fretboard in the same radius. Also I do deviate from the radius slightly to give the bass strings slightly more action than the rest. But it's quite fiddly to hold the feeler gauges in one hand and file with the other hand but it works nice all the same.

[rolling56]

Nice gear there rolling56, I imagine that action gauge would make things less fiddly. My method uses cheap feeler gauges with no need for a radius gauge because all of your measurements come up from the fretboard, and so all of the slots arc over the fretboard in the same radius. Also I do deviate from the radius slightly to give the bass strings slightly more action than the rest. But it's quite fiddly to hold the feeler gauges in one hand and file with the other hand but it works nice all the same.

 

ya i have just gotten into making my own nuts and i am looking at different ways to make the slots and setup/action. If you read some of the reviews on the nut slotting gauge at StewMac, there's a person that works for Collings guitars and tries to get his slots as low as .005 at the first fret holding the string down between the 2nd and 3rd frets on their acoustics. I am working on the same setup at he does and have ruined a few nut blanks in the process oh well we all have to start learning sometime

 

Sorry for drifting off topic here and i apologize to the OP. Great forum here by the way and some really nice people i have run across here so far B)

[Aerial Man]

ya i have just gotten into making my own nuts and i am looking at different ways to make the slots and setup/action. If you read some of the reviews on the nut slotting gauge at StewMac, there's a person that works for Collings guitars and tries to get his slots as low as .005 at the first fret holding the string down between the 2nd and 3rd frets on their acoustics. I am working on the same setup at he does and have ruined a few nut blanks in the process oh well we all have to start learning sometime

 

Sorry for drifting off topic here and i apologize to the OP. Great forum here by the way and some really nice people i have run across here so far B)

 

It's all part of the fun. It does take some practice to perfect this process, and I wouldn't reccomend anyone doing this without taking great care and with the understanding that this may take several attempts to get right.

 

Ive been setting my nut action to first fret height + .015" on the low E graduating round to fret height + .008" for the high E. This is only a ruff guide though and depends on string gauge and neck relief etc The one way to gaurantee not messing up a nut is to fret each string at the 3rd fret and tap the same string at the first fret. There should be a little movement and you should be able to hear a tapping sound. Keep checking there is a gap as you go. When the gap is so slight and you just still hear a 'tink' as you hit the string, you have the perfect slot depth.

 

One thing that I will stress though is that when adjusting the nut action to this level of acurracy, it is very important that first of all you make the neck completely straight by adjusting the truss rod if necessary, and check your frets with a straight edge to ensure they are completely level. Without these good foundations to build on you cannot adjust the nut action to this kind of accuracy because youll just get buzzing problems. Most people on here with a modern gibson though shouldn't have any such issues.

[Aerial Man]

Hello there again, I have now finished working on the nut so will run through the final steps as promised. I just want to make clear again that before you undertake any of these steps on the nut it is first important to ensure that you are working with a straight neck and level frets, or you will most likely end up with buzzing issues as a result. If your neck isn't straight or the frets are unlevel then you should get these things worked on first. With all that said, anyone on here with a newish Gibson should have nothing to worry about!

I use a Technofret fret rocker bought from ebay to check my frets are all level, and I use the guitar strings to check my neck relief (fret at the first fret and at the body). All checks and measurements of action should be done in the playing position.

 

Also I will just say that any measurements I have used here are as a guide only. These measurements will differ for all guitars, and will depend on the string gauge used and also the style of guitar. Desired nut action can vary anywhere from .030" (for the low E string of an acoustic) down to .005" (for the high E of say a les paul) just to put this in perspective for you.

 

Following on from my previous instructions, the first step in adjusting action at the nut is to measure the height of the first fret from the fretboard. I do this by laying a straight edge down against the first few frets, and then using a feeler gauge set to find a combination of gauges that fit perfectly between the fretboard and the straightedge overhanging the front side of the first fret. I do this in 3 places across the first fret just to ensure that the first fret is seated correctly first ****Be Very Careful when taking your measurements**** you are filing to a high level of accuracy here, so go very careful not to file too much off!

 

 

Here I have found a .23" and .24" combination that fits. My first fret is .47" high at the front edge!.....Now what I plan to do, is to give each string a slightly different action height to the others. I will give .16" of action to the low E, and .11" to the high E. Like so > (E).16" (A).15" (D).14" (G).13" (B ).12" (E).11"

 

We achieve these action heights by stacking my .23 and .24 (=.47") feeler gauges up against the back of the nut ontop of the fretboard. At each string slot I add an additional feeler gauge to the stack. This feeler gauge is equal to the desired string action for that particular slot.

we use the feeler gauges as a STOP for the file. When the nut file hits the stack of feeler gauges and makes a mark in the metal, we know that we have the exact string action that we have set. Just also be careful to be accurate with the way you are holding tools etc if you bare this in mind whilst working it will pay off for you.

 

One way to ensure that we do not remove too much material is to fret at the 3rd fret and tap the string above the first fret. There should be some visible movement there. So long as there remains some visible clearance over the first fret youll be OK. You should do this test whilst in the playing position.

 

Now that we have finished setting the action, we need to do the final shaping to the front side of the nut. I stick blue tape over mine so that I cannot by mistake take away any material from the guitar contact points (affecting the fit and finish). The shape comes naturally by following the string slots. Ideal slot depths are half diameter for the wound strings and full diameter of the plain strings. It's also good to shape the slots openings slightly angled wider to allow smooth string flow from the tuners. Also just to smooth off any sharp edges that will protrude when fitted to the guitar. Keep all edges on joining surfaces of the nut nice and sharp clean cut, you will get a more proffesional and seamless join to the guitar neck this way.

 

Some shaping I do on the guitar and some shaping I take the nut out for. I do all of the shaping either with sand paper on a flat surface using even pressure, or with sand paper wrapped around a nut file. The last thing to make fit is the ends of the nut to the neck which I sand last to keep the edges nice and sharp for a better fit. I use Grits 180 - 1200 for shaping nuts. Cutting compound is good for a final smoothing and polish.

 

Once you are finished, you are left with a perfectly shaped and polished nut that looks and plays beautifully. I did originally plan on going even lower with the action, but it turned out that I like it so much at .16" - .11" I wont bother for now unless I feel like it in future

 

Hope this gets some of you into making your own nuts lol if anyone needs more clarification on anything just ask

[Aerial Man]