johnbiffa Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I have a stunning 58 VOS with a stinger at rear of headstock. See they were issued in 2003, anyone know how many were made in the recent run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayville Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I have a stunning 58 VOS with a stinger at rear of headstock. See they were issued in 2003, anyone know how many were made in the recent run? The Stinger series was commissioned by Dave Carpenter, then owner of Music Machine in Kennewick, Washington. At the time it was, I believe, the largest single custom configuration order ever placed to the Gibson Custom Shop and comprised a wide variety of CS offerings in limited numbers. There were 56s, 57s, 58s, 59s and 60 LPs, SGs, Flying Vs, CS-356s and even acoustics: J-45s, Southern Jumbos, SJ-200s, AJs and Hummingbirds, many in exotic woods and custom colors. They all had stingers painted on the back of the headstock in homage to Dave's personal original 1959 LP. And they all had two serial numbers - the usual one for a reissue and an "MM" serial number designating which guitar it was in it's model year. The marketing at the time said that Edwin Wilson personally selected all the tonewoods used specifically for the sound, and extraordinary care and craft went into each guitar. My own beloved CS-356 in quilted "heritage darkburst" is from that run. I don't know the production numbers of the various LPs for sure, but I do not believe it was more than 20-25 for each model year, with variations in the specs within each model. I do believe all the LPs had Brazillion rosewood fingerboards. The series was produced just once - it was a huge risk for Dave Carpenter. In the case of my CS-356, it's one of only 3 spec'd the same way and there were a total of 10 glossy ones in various colors and woods and 10 in "Custom Authentic" (the precursor to VOS, and I believe a slightly different sort of light aging than VOS). I think personally that that point in guitar retailing history was fairly special for guitar purchasers. Internet retailing was relatively new, and Dave Carpenter and his crew were master marketers, able to highlight their very special wares in just the way that guitarists wanted to see them. It was sort of the Wild West in the sense that there were few restrictions on how a dealer could merchandise online, and the best of them did an excellent job showcasing individual guitars and the Custom Shop's craft worldwide. Several of the most effective independent dealers ordered up custom configuration guitars to showcase their individuality and distinguish themselves from their less-capable or more generic competition. That's how East Coast me ended up with a West Coast guitar, bypassing all my local dealers who had of course been granted an exclusive on my geographic area... but who were not taking a chance on the then-new CS-356 model at all. It was a complex dynamic... but eventually Gibson changed the rules for online retailing and forbade that sort of marketing. A few years after that, they granted exceptions for a very, very select few and these days Wildwood's website most resembles the sort of online presence that Music Machine pioneered. For a while, there was a fan website for the Stingers that included Dave Carpenter's narrative history of the series and a complete list/spreadsheet of the specs for every guitar in it - but sadly that website disappeared 3 or 4 years ago. Attached is the original Stinger brochure in two parts... I hope some of that helps. You may be able to extract more information from the folks at Music Machine or Dave Carpenter himself with a direct inquiry. This might be of interest to you also - it's not easy to follow, but much can be learned from it: http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94243 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayville Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I just read back through that Les Paul Forum thread and see that Dave's entire History of the Stingers is in it. Unfortunately, the xls file (the excell spreadsheet) that detailed every guitar is missing and the links to it are dead. Someone in post number 180 of that thread does say that there were only 14 of the 1958 LPs in the run. Anyway, I'm the original owner of my CS-356 Stinger and have followed the run fairly closely (can you tell?). I've never heard a bad word spoken about any of them. Enjoy yours! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbiffa Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 I just read back through that Les Paul Forum thread and see that Dave's entire History of the Stingers is in it. Unfortunately, the xls file (the excell spreadsheet) that detailed every guitar is missing and the links to it are dead. Someone in post number 180 of that thread does say that there were only 14 of the 1958 LPs in the run. Anyway, I'm the original owner of my CS-356 Stinger and have followed the run fairly closely (can you tell?). I've never heard a bad word spoken about any of them. Enjoy yours! IThanks for the responses. bought mine in November 2011 from a reputable store in UK as a new guitar, the serial number is 8 1691, could this have been left over from the original Stinger issued commissioned Dave Carpenter? Beautiful looking and playing guitar which the receipt calls Western Desert Fade Lightly Figured, could this be another limited edition RI? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayville Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 The 2003 Music Machine Stingers all had a second serial number on the headstock beginning with MM as in the photo in the brochure attached above. If yours doesn't have that, it could be from some other custom order for someone. The original run eventually sold out, and it's unlikely that there were 'leftovers' that boasted the same specs or lasted until 2011. That '03 run was well-regarded mainly for the specs - unusual colors, unusual woods, brazilian rosewood fretboards, and reportedly unusual attention to detail - and not so much for the Stingers themselves. That said, some of the originals were purchased as "collectibles" and investments rather than "players", and kept under the bed indefinitely. If yours has that extra serial number and was sold to you "as new", it could have been under a sort of slightly bent interpretation of what "new" means... or it isn't truly a Music Machine Stinger, with the extra collector's cache of those specs (especially the Brazilian). Have you got a photo of the back of your headstock? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Clay, great write up but it seems he's asking about the 2011 Stingers that (I believe) were only available through Guitar Center. They do not have Brazilian rosewood. I'm pretty sure the 2011s were supposed to be a second run of Burst Brothers guitars but the run was cancelled over legal issues. They decided to just cover the back of the headstock black, change the serial number and sell them as Stingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clayville Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I just ran across this tale, which I had never heard before: http://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-1958-les-paul-historic-58-2011-western So... if that's true, your guitar is perhaps more closely related to a limited run for Guitar Center that to the 2003 Music Machine guitars. And here's more: http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177629&highlight=stinger Seems like the first story in this post might be right: with 18 left in the run that had a B9 serial number (B for Burst Brothers, the duo who once ran the Guitar Center Hollywood vintage room), Gibson painted over the headstock with a stinger and re-stamped the guitars as'58 reissues, then opened the control cavity and sanded off the R9 stamp and re-stamped with R8. Right about here is where I remind people that if it plays good, sounds good, and looks good... it IS good. But I have no idea what the original specs of these were, And I guess my lore only extends to the original run! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbiffa Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 I just ran across this tale, which I had never heard before: http://www.gbase.com/gear/gibson-1958-les-paul-historic-58-2011-western So... if that's true, your guitar is perhaps more closely related to a limited run for Guitar Center that to the 2003 Music Machine guitars. And here's more: http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177629&highlight=stinger Seems like the first story in this post might be right: with 18 left in the run that had a B9 serial number (B for Burst Brothers, the duo who once ran the Guitar Center Hollywood vintage room), Gibson painted over the headstock with a stinger and re-stamped the guitars as'58 reissues, then opened the control cavity and sanded off the R9 stamp and re-stamped with R8. Right about here is where I remind people that if it plays good, sounds good, and looks good... it IS good. But I have no idea what the original specs of these were, And I guess my lore only extends to the original run! And it does look and play great as well. It's a keeper ! There is some great knowledge out there! Amazing that this should turn up in a major UK guitar chain, never seen any other Stingers over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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