ISO Recording Tips on Getting Good Acoustic Tone with eSonic2

[Stevis]

I am beginning to play around with recording using my Epi Masterbilt DR-500ME and GarageBand. I have been recording using the mono guitar signal through my Apogee unit and into a "dry" mic setting on GB for iPad (no post effects). I am merely chording (no finger picking).

 

My guitar (dread) has the eSonic2 pup system, which has a great sound through an acoustic amp. I would characterize the unplugged sound of the guitar as resonant, with more emphasis on low end. After my initial recordings, I find that the tone does not live up to the unplugged or amplified sounds. I am hoping to get some thoughts on how to get a better (truer?) acoustic sound, when recording at home.

 

I would like to start with getting suggestions on how to best "dial in" my tone using the eSonic. To my untrained/novice ear, it sounds like the nanomag (which sits at end of neck) tends to really emphasize the low end (even with the EQ set to 12 o'clock). I believe that the construction/sound of this pup is more like an electric guitar pup. It also seems to me that the bridge pup seems to catch more of the high end (with EQ at 12 o'clock) and has more of what I can only characterize as the acoustic tone. So, I tried to dial-in each of the EQs - from 12 to 10 for bridge pup and 12 to 2 on nanomag/neck (and to use the balance control to emphasize the bridge pup, to emphasize acoustic tone). It sounded o.k. but not up to expectations (still missing "something" inherent in acoustic tone/sound).

 

The YouTube video on the eSonic2 system sounds great. While it is an informative piece in some respects, it is impossible to tell how they dialed in the pup system and how they processed the signal (effects?).

 

Soooo, I guess my questions are: 1) are my expectations too high here, given rig?; 2) do you have ideas on better way to dial in tone on eSonic2 system; 3) would I get a better sounding recording using eSonic2 in stereo mode?; 4) would a mic be better option?; 5) would mic and pup be best; or 5) pretty much impossible to answer given lame description above and/or lame nature of my question?

 

Thanks,

Steve

[milod]

Stevis...

 

Welcome to the world of AE guitars and ... dare I say it ... amplification games.

 

I have the same guitar. I amp with the mono plug through a cheapie Kustom AE amp, then plug mono line out into a USB converter into the computer where I use Audacity to record. Adding a bit of the mag pup for a bit more bass to match reality works well.

 

No problems.

 

It may be your amp, especially if you're miking an amp with smaller speakers that I don't care for. My cheapie Kustom has a 10-inch speaker. It works well with either AE or electrics plus a mike through one side.

 

I've also had no probs running the guitar straight into a PA amp, mono settings.

 

You may want to check garage band settings and/or how you're getting between amp and computer. Miking an 8-inch speaker will give different response, probably lacking some of that bottom, than running a line out into the computer depending on the amp and theoretical speaker emulation from the line out.

 

m

[Stevis]

Thanks, Milod. Unfortunately, I do not have an acoustic amp. I have a Fender Blues Jr and a Vox AC15. I have played through an acoustic amp at GC and there is a big difference. Again, through my amps, it sounds more "electric", when compared to an actual acoustic amp.

 

Have you ever tried setting up mic directly to guitar - sans amp? I was curious as to sound quality and noise factor.

 

The Mac version of GarageBand has many more amp modeling options than iPad version. I need to see if there is an acoustic amp model.

 

Steve

[milod]

In the olden days before AE guitars, yeah, I be standing with a mike at the guitar and one for vocal. IMHO it never quite worked as well. I know the purists will tell you it's best, but that's definitely in recording as opposed to performance.

 

Selling points for me in the Kustom 30-watt cheapie AE amp were the dual inputs for mike and voice and the line out - not to mention the 10-inch speaker. Frankly it's nowadays my "take out to play in small public venues" amp even for electrics.

 

But even in the olden days with my first AEs that were among the first made, an Ovation electric Legend and a nylon string Country Artist, I didn't have problems with either a Deluxe Reverb or later a sorta clone of the Twin Reverb, both tube amps. Neither Ovation at the time had any EQ, just volume.

 

I'm not a super tone hound, but I never had the degree of tone concerns you're reflecting...

 

I've also, as I mentioned, had good luck just plugging direct into a powered mixer or PA board.

 

You might consider how you're handling EQ on the amps even more than what you do on the guitar itself. There are a lot of variables.

 

In fact, you may want to consider an inexpensive PA such as MF has for $200. Two 10-inch woofers and little tweeters and enough input/outgo to handle a couple of AEs and a couple of mikes - stereo in, line out...

 

I go even cheaper than that with the little Kustom that is plenty for any guitar I own in a 50-100 person room and even with just solo guitar, even on stage in a 5-600 seat theater.

 

Nowadays I mostly fingerpick (99.7 percent or more), so maybe I'm less concerned than were I "just" chording. But in the old days I used to "just" chord in saloons doing a lotta country type stuff and even with the old Ovations that tended to overcook trebles, it was fine.

 

m

[Stevis]

You make a good point about dialing in the amp and settings. For my purposes (hobbiest) and budget (way too much $ into musical equipment already ), I can't really afford to purchase an acoustic amp.

 

My Fender Blues Jr has a very nice clean sound. However, I have only tried playing the AE with the same EQ settings as I would on my electric guitars. So, I think I will take your advice and play around with miking it. I am also keen to try the guitar's stereo feature by running both lines through my Roland UA-25 Audio interface, as it has two instrument inputs.

 

Thanks again!

Steve

[milod]

Can't say about the other devices, but absolutely mess with the amp EQ settings.

 

You should come up with a match of guitar and amp settings that makes you happy.

 

I've just never been happy miking an amp. I know "everybody does it." Especially on stage. I just figured it added more parts to mess with and that could go wrong.

 

m

[RaysEpiphone]

You try using a microphone instead of the direct line? While you can get a usable sound with the set up Milod mentioned you wont get a real acoustic sound until you use a good mic, set at proper in-put level's, in a nice room, in the proper placement.

[Stevis]

Thanks for the input, Ray. I have just been running a line from guitar, into USB interface, into computer. You suggest using a mic. I have a Shure SM57 but have not tried it with the acoustic. Are you suggesting I directly mic the guitar or that I mic the amp?

 

Steve

[Dodger11]

Thanks for the input, Ray. I have just been running a line from guitar, into USB interface, into computer. You suggest using a mic. I have a Shure SM57 but have not tried it with the acoustic. Are you suggesting I directly mic the guitar or that I mic the amp?

 

Steve

 

I think a lot of artists would directly mic the guitar in the studio to get the authentic acoustic sound Steve

[milod]

I think the key word here is "studio."

 

I never direct mike my guitars when I'm recording practice sessions or whatever because that ain't how I'm going to be performing.

 

Yeah, for studio recording purposes, good mikes, properly placed in a proper room and with proper everything else, that's the way to go with an unplugged acoustic.

 

It's not what you sound like on stage. Been there, done that in the days before AE was invented per se. It never really worked that well except in relatively small venues and even then, really only doing a guitar solo type of thing as opposed to playing with an ensemble of some sort. Yeah, I know a lotta purists will argue, and more power to 'em. I s'pose if you've lots of good mikes and roadies and a great PA system for a bluegrass band that's playing in overdrive anyway... yup. Or to record classical guitar or equivalent. But notice on Youtube vids how such as Chet, Knopfler, etc., etc., use an EA. Watson... no, but most of his material I've heard had pretty decent miking and somebody working hard to make the mikes work.

 

Even with 1950s guitars such as the few P90-type pups and such Gibson did with some early models, and that I have a friend playing today, if you're using something on stage, IMHO you should be using it to record if you're either trying to see how you would sound in performance or if you are performing.

 

But that's just how my cash gets spent. Others may prefer other modes.

 

m

[Stevis]

Yes, the notion of a studio is not in the cards here. I have seen suggestions about using a walk-in closet as a space for doing voice and vocals. I might give that a try in miking the guitar directly, as it is a small space and the clothes dampen noise reflection.

 

I like the pups on this guitar and want to dabble with the stereo option and running the two lines out through USB interface. I am going to play around with different options as my weekend "project". I'll drop a line with an update.

 

Thanks gang!

Steve

[RaysEpiphone]

Again Milod has a good point. It will depend on the type of sound your going for as to how to approach it. As for your mic selection the SM57 is one of the most versatile mic's ever made and can literally be used for anything. I'd say find the largest open room in your house with the most wood construction (walls floors etc), use trial and error in different places in that room until you hit pay-dirt. You don't need a huge budget and an elaborate studio to get a use able recording, don't expect perfection but if you take some time you can get a keeper for amateur/demo use.

[Stevis]

Thanks for the suggestion on the open room. I would have seen that as counterintuitive, given the little I know about recording voice overs and vocals. I actually did a lot of playing around today thanks to my new Macbook Pro (goodbye Windows!), which has the full version of GarageBand. It has a lot more bells and whistles, including a variety of choices devoted to acoustic guitar. As was discussed in earlier postings, my focus today was on playing around with EQ settings on the guitar, as well as experimenting with adjusting the balance between the two pups. So, I just recorded everything "dry." I was happier with the sound as I think I was able to get a little more mid into the recording.

 

To date, I have just been running things through this wonderful little device called the Apogee Jam, which allows me to plug guitar into it and run a single line into the USB port. I have a UA-25, with two input jacks, which will allow me to test out the stereo option on the guitar (as it is not clear to me if each of the jacks on the guitar are devoted to a single pup).

 

This is all new to me as my background is really electric bass (where you typically use a direct box live and never mess with miking amps). I am a hack guitar player and so I am kind of learning the guitar AND recording on the fly. So, it is nice to be able to tap into the insights and experiences of more experienced acoustic players, like yourselves.

 

To be continued . . .

 

Steve

[RaysEpiphone]

Thanks for the suggestion on the open room. I would have seen that as counterintuitive, given the little I know about recording voice overs and vocals. I actually did a lot of playing around today thanks to my new Macbook Pro (goodbye Windows!), which has the full version of GarageBand. It has a lot more bells and whistles, including a variety of choices devoted to acoustic guitar. As was discussed in earlier postings, my focus today was on playing around with EQ settings on the guitar, as well as experimenting with adjusting the balance between the two pups. So, I just recorded everything "dry." I was happier with the sound as I think I was able to get a little more mid into the recording.

 

To date, I have just been running things through this wonderful little device called the Apogee Jam, which allows me to plug guitar into it and run a single line into the USB port. I have a

, with two input jacks, which will allow me to test out the stereo option on the guitar (as it is not clear to me if each of the jacks on the guitar are devoted to a single pup).

 

This is all new to me as my background is really electric bass (where you typically use a direct box live and never mess with miking amps). I am a hack guitar player and so I am kind of learning the guitar AND recording on the fly. So, it is nice to be able to tap into the insights and experiences of more experienced acoustic players, like yourselves.

 

To be continued . . .

 

Steve

 

This is what your using/have?

 

http://www.g4tv.com/videos/58538/apogee-jam-and-mic-review/

 

 

All you need now is a small format mixer, a few balanced cable's and any DAW software that will run on your computer and the UA-25. The bad thing about recording in a small enclosed room is it will give you a very compressed sound that will be difficult to EQ and mix.

[Stevis]

Thanks for the video links, Ray. Yes, I have that microphone (SM57) and the UA-25. What I am confused about with your suggestion is why I would need a small format mixer? Couldn't the mixing (levels, effects and channels) be done at the software level?

 

Steve