Are historics significantly better quality than the mass produced standards?

[GonzoJohn]

Hey all,

I recently purchased a 2012 Les Paul Standard to replace my 2006 Standard. I love the upgrades they made, and the guitar is nice, but it does have some flaws. I also don't feel that inspiration where it speaks to me like other guitars have in the past. So my question is are the historics made significantly better than the mass produced standards? If I bought one sight unseen, would I need to worry about QC?

[CR9]

I wouldn't significantly better. Maybe different. If the 2012 did not "speak" to you , then maybe it wasn't the one to buy. The historic have a lot more hand work compared to the machine work that the USA Standards have.I did not the the "inspiration" from some of the first historic I played and still don't get that inspiration from every one of them. A lot of the inspiration is because each historic is different from the next. I have had several that came sight unseen with great luck but only because it was a trusted Custom Dealer. A dealer that checks very closely before sending one out. I am not saying it is just one particular dealer because I have dealt with several. there are some that take your order and ship it without opening the box. That puts checking the quality on you and also setting up the guitar. I do know some guys that want an unopened factory box. Not me, I WANT the dealer to check it.

[GonzoJohn]

I wouldn't significantly better. Maybe different. If the 2012 did not "speak" to you , then maybe it wasn't the one to buy. The historic have a lot more hand work compared to the machine work that the USA Standards have.I did not the the "inspiration" from some of the first historic I played and still don't get that inspiration from every one of them. A lot of the inspiration is because each historic is different from the next. I have had several that came sight unseen with great luck but only because it was a trusted Custom Dealer. A dealer that checks very closely before sending one out. I am not saying it is just one particular dealer because I have dealt with several. there are some that take your order and ship it without opening the box. That puts checking the quality on you and also setting up the guitar. I do know some guys that want an unopened factory box. Not me, I WANT the dealer to check it.

 

Thanks CR9. I think I found the right dealer that takes extra care with the instruments he sells. It's important to me, because I DO need to buy sight unseen. There just aren't any around here. Here's a question for you. On another site, some of the folks say that the cost of the guitar I'd like to buy ($2990) is way too much. Although brand new, the seller isn't technically a Gibson dealer so the warranty would be void. However, said dealer is well known for being very professional, which I've found through various random Google searches. The guitar according to the heading is a "Gibson Custom Shop Gloss Finish 1958 Les Paul Plaintop Reissue."

 

Additionally, after searching for days on forums and eBay, the average price for a used one tends to run between 2500-3200. Is this a basic model that I'm looking at here? The new LP Standards run somewhere between 2500-3000. Would this not be at least worth that much used? I have run searches on all the web sites selling these and the 58s I've seen with a gloss finish are selling for 4k new. Thanks!

[CR9]

It sounds like you have done your homework on this. The prices I am mentioning are rough prices and not exact. Do not use them as a negotiating point. The 58 Historic will run about $4000 new and about 2900 used. The used price will be just about what a new Standard will cost. In a lot of cases, the used Historic will be in perfect condition and you can get a great deal. If you are outside the USA, you need to check what warranty you would get even if it is a new Historic. I would hope that if the 58 had any problems, the original owner would have had the warranty work done. You must decide how much the value of a warranty means to you. I want a warranty and it means a lot to me although I would not pass up a used historic for the right price. You must build a trusting relationship with a dealer when you buy site unseen. On thing you have not mentioned is the neck profile that you want. Every Historic neck varies and this calls for a very accurate description from the dealer and you must have a good knowledge of what you want and how to describe it so the dealer can get you the right one. There are many dealers that I would trust their description of a guitar. Most of all, with any purchase, make sure you have a return policy. Maybe you can give a few more details about the historic you are looking at. It sounds like a basic model, but most of them are. A one-off or special options historic should have a higher price. A VOS model will save you some money and can be polished to almost the same gloss.

[GonzoJohn]

Hey CR9. Thanks again for the reply. You ask a very good question about the neck... I have primarily played 60s necks. I currently have a 2006 LP Standard with a 60s neck. I also have an ES-335 with a 60s neck (although I wish it was 50s). However, I think it's time for a change. I played a 50s neck at one of our local GC's a few weeks ago and just loved it. I understand the 58s are bigger yet by a good margin.

 

The cool thing about this particular guitar I'm looking at is that the neck thickness is roughly the same as a '59. The R9 thickness at the first fret is an average of .910" whereas the R8 averages around .925" at the first fret. So really, I'm actually getting an R9 without the flame top. This makes it an easier decision. However, there is a second reason I'm going after this neck thickness and it may sound stupid... I live in Minnesota where we have DRASTIC weather changes. My Gibsons with 60s necks have to constantly be tweaked with the thinner necks--especially having 10s on them. They seem very delicate and sensitive. Although I know that guitars with bigger necks still need the seasonal set-up, I don't think a '58 neck will have as much relief. This is all speculation of course.

 

Here is the description with some pics below:

 

As new (GLOSS FINISH AT THE VOS PRICE) 2011 Washed Cherry '58 in gloss finish($400.00 upcharge), 8 lbs 15 ounces, comfortable neck that measures: 1st fret - .908", 12th fret - 1.002", dark 1-piece Indian rosewood fingerboard, Burstbucker 1&2 pickups that read: bridge - 8.22K, neck - 7.68K, real smooth sounding guitar that's fat and woody, bottom end stays good and focused, mids are thick, and honky which keeps even the highest lead notes fat , just enough top end for clarity, comes with all paperwork, certificate and black Gibson Custom case. $2,990.00.

 

[LysanderSky]

That guitar is absolutely amazing. I played one of those at shop recently and it was my favourite historic I have played so far. I didn't play the gloss version though but either way, you can't go wrong with this one. The washed cherry looks gorgeous. The neck is indeed very nice and not such a baseball bat like on a 59 es-335 historic. Personally, I am not too picky about neck size but more about nut width. Althoug I have large hands and long fingers I tend to prefer slim necks but with this guitar, the neck felt really nice...

 

You'll love this one, congrats!

[CR9]

Great looking guitar. The asking price is not always the actual selling price and I think the asking price is within reason. Remember that a lot of forum posts are opinions, including mine. One thing that is a little misleading is that neck thickness is not the entire explanation of neck profile. The shape of the shoulders (sides near the fretboard) give the feel of a bigger or smaller neck while the thickness dimension can remain the same. Some relate this to a "C" or "D" or maybe a "V" shape. As example, a 60's neck with a D profile will feel bigger than a 60's with a C shape. Also not that the 50 & 60's neck size from Gibson USA is not the same size as from the Custom shop and every guitar from the Custom shop is a hand profiled neck. You can get several different size necks on the 58 which is why the dealer description and return policy is critical when you can't see the guitar.

[GonzoJohn]

Hey guys,

From your responses, I'm getting the impression you think this is a fair price. So, I think I'm going to go for it. I'm assuming I'll like the neck carve, because I've read about a lot of 60s neck playing converts that now swear by them.

 

One last question... I've seen a few of the VOS ones around used for a cheaper price. Not sure I like that idea. What do you guys think of them?

[AXE®]

The VOS will rub off. The hardware will have a nice patina.

 

[GonzoJohn]

Well I got it. Should be here on Thursday. Kind of a risk buying anything for that much money in this economy, but I couldn't pass that one up. At least I'll be a happy guitar player if I lose my job or something.