Gibson Crest L5

[BAMA]

I was given a Gibson Crest by my father in the 60's. The serial number is 38759. The style says it is L5. It is a tag that you can see through the F hole. I can see it was made in Kalamazoo. Was wondering when? Also was looking for recommendations on a little restoration. Not sure how rare it is, but I am the one and only owner and know it is around 50 years old. It was purchased at Sunny Shields Music in East St. Louis Illinois by my dad in the 60's.

[tvguit]

First of all Roll Tide! I'm a bama grad. Pictures are necessary in order to date the guitar. If you email them to me then I would be happy to post the for you (tvguit at gmail).

[BAMA]

Roll Tide my son went to Alabama.

[JimR56]

I was given a Gibson Crest by my father in the 60's. The serial number is 38759. The style says it is L5. It is a tag that you can see through the F hole. I can see it was made in Kalamazoo. Was wondering when? Also was looking for recommendations on a little restoration. Not sure how rare it is, but I am the one and only owner and know it is around 50 years old. It was purchased at Sunny Shields Music in East St. Louis Illinois by my dad in the 60's.

BAMA,

 

First of all, WOW. I have been a vintage Gibson archtop enthusiast, player and "collector" (in the sense that I treasure them, not that I am wealthy and can afford to keep many of them at once) for nearly 40 years. I own a 1963 L5CT, which is a close relative of your guitar. Mine is rare (Gibson only made about 45 of them), but yours is a holy grail type of guitar. I have been aware of the model for many years, since I bought a book called "Guitars: The Tsumura Collection" back in the 1980's, but I never thought I would see one turn up like this. In short, you have a treasure there.

 

I have some information for you. Your guitar is one of 6 made. They were all made in 1961. The model was conceived by a gentleman named Andy Nelson, who was an important Gibson employee at the time. You can learn about Nelson at this link: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:AWIBphCaCWMJ:www.classicjazzguitar.com/images/nelson/andybook.pdf+gibson+l5ct+bracing+parallel&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiFg0xNREojhroGrUDrYraNmc8a2Mx1SPAMDjAixsr2xHVL5No2IHUVCuazOsUwg3SaJM98VkvkvxanhcqVZsMWmi1S6O9_jYoRcpeyIYwGWy3ftcYpUhT1khALYm6ob2n5oojU&sig=AHIEtbTVzqX2KaKtYDJE0VV6-VxfMC9vSA

 

Go to page 13 and 14 of the article to read about the L5CT and the Crest (note that there was another Gibson model called the Crest- introduced in 1969- but that was a completely different design). Here's an excerpt from the above article:

 

"Another related model was the Crest. Many

readers may have seen the Brazilian rosewood Crest

model in the Rare Bird section of the February, 1992

Guitar Player magazine. This was a much later model,

built in the 1970s and based on the hollowbodied ES-

330 model. The original Crest (pictured below), built to

my specifications, was basically a highly decorated

electric L-5 CT. I had the factory build six of them and I

personally sold every one of them at the unheard of

price of $1,500! Construction details included the use

of the new for 1961 (on L-5s) Florentine cutaway, and

chrome-plated Grover Imperial tuners. The 22 fret

neck used Super 400-style inlays, and had a knight’s

head peghead inlay (simulating a Gibson family

“crest”—thus the name). The tailpiece was gold-plated

custom unit, and had “Varitone” wiring for its two

“humbuckers.” You can see a fine example of this

original “Crest” on page 79 of Akira Tsumura’s book

Guitars—The Tsumura Collection (1987,Tokyo, Kodansha

International), and across, this page." (there is a photo of the Crest in the pdf article, but it can't be linked, or I would post it here).

 

I'm really looking forward to discussing this further and hearing more about your guitar. May I request that you post more photographs? I'm sure that all vintage Gibson enthusiasts would be very grateful if you could do that. In fact, I recently was making some contributions to a discussion on another guitar board about rare Gibsons finished in cherry red (here's the link, this is a very interesting thread: http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182784 ), and I realized there there are no photos on the internet of a Crest like yours. As far as I'm concerned you can't post too many photos of your Crest! :)

 

Final thought for now... I would strongly recommend that you contact George Gruhn and Walter Carter, and have your Crest evaluated and appraised. George is the foremost authority on vintage guitars, and among the most respected people in the vintage guitar business for decades. http://www.gruhn.com/

[BAMA]

BAMA,

 

First of all, WOW. I have been a vintage Gibson archtop enthusiast, player and "collector" (in the sense that I treasure them, not that I am wealthy and can afford to keep many of them at once) for nearly 40 years. I own a 1963 L5CT, which is a close relative of your guitar. Mine is rare (Gibson only made about 45 of them), but yours is a holy grail type of guitar. I have been aware of the model for many years, since I bought a book called "Guitars: The Tsumura Collection" back in the 1980's, but I never thought I would see one turn up like this. In short, you have a treasure there.

 

I have some information for you. Your guitar is one of 6 made in 1961. The model was conceived by a gentleman named Andy Nelson, who was an important Gibson employee at the time. You can learn about Nelson at this link: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:AWIBphCaCWMJ:www.classicjazzguitar.com/images/nelson/andybook.pdf+gibson+l5ct+bracing+parallel&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESiFg0xNREojhroGrUDrYraNmc8a2Mx1SPAMDjAixsr2xHVL5No2IHUVCuazOsUwg3SaJM98VkvkvxanhcqVZsMWmi1S6O9_jYoRcpeyIYwGWy3ftcYpUhT1khALYm6ob2n5oojU&sig=AHIEtbTVzqX2KaKtYDJE0VV6-VxfMC9vSA

 

Go to page 13 and 14 of the article to read about the L5CT and the Crest (note that there was another Gibson model called the Crest- introduced in 1969- but that was a completely different design). Here's an excerpt from the above article:

 

"Another related model was the Crest. Many

readers may have seen the Brazilian rosewood Crest

model in the Rare Bird section of the February, 1992

Guitar Player magazine. This was a much later model,

built in the 1970s and based on the hollowbodied ES-

330 model. The original Crest (pictured below), built to

my specifications, was basically a highly decorated

electric L-5 CT. I had the factory build six of them and I

personally sold every one of them at the unheard of

price of $1,500! Construction details included the use

of the new for 1961 (on L-5s) Florentine cutaway, and

chrome-plated Grover Imperial tuners. The 22 fret

neck used Super 400-style inlays, and had a knight’s

head peghead inlay (simulating a Gibson family

“crest”—thus the name). The tailpiece was gold-plated

custom unit, and had “Varitone” wiring for its two

“humbuckers.” You can see a fine example of this

original “Crest” on page 79 of Akira Tsumura’s book

Guitars—The Tsumura Collection (1987,Tokyo, Kodansha

International), and across, this page." (there is a photo of the Crest in the pdf article, but it can't be linked, or I would post it here).

 

I'm really looking forward to discussing this further and hearing more about your guitar. May I request that you post more photographs? I'm sure that all vintage Gibson enthusiasts would be very grateful if you could do that. In fact, I recently was making some contributions to a discussion on another guitar board about rare Gibsons finished in cherry red (here's the link, this is a very interesting thread: http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182784 ), and I realized there there are no photos on the internet of a Crest like yours. As far as I'm concerned you can't post too many photos of your Crest! :)

 

Final thought for now... I would strongly recommend that you contact George Gruhn and Walter Carter, and have your Crest evaluated and appraised. George is the foremost authority on vintage guitars, and among the most respected people in the vintage guitar business for decades. http://www.gruhn.com/

[BAMA]

Thanks for the information. I have more pics but unfortunately it appears I am limited to 500K and the two pics I posted took up most of that.

 

Its funny I remember that the guitar cost $1500 back them and my dad told me at the time there were only five others made. Which matches your facts exactly.

 

Thanks for the suggestion on contacting George Gruhn. I was actually in Nashville a few weeks ago and was in his music store just looking around.

 

Will be glad to post or send more pics if you can tell me how I would get around the posting limit of 500K

[JimR56]

Hi BAMA,

 

I forgot to mention it, but I would suggest that you not do any restoration to that guitar until you've talked to Mr. Gruhn. He is very conservative about such things, and especially with a rare guitar like this, I think that's the appropriate attitude to have.

 

I have to run right now, but I'll send you a private message later regarding photos.

 

Thanks again for sharing here. It's a thrill just seeing the photos of it.

[BAMA]

Hi BAMA,

 

I forgot to mention it, but I would suggest that you not do any restoration to that guitar until you've talked to Mr. Gruhn. He is very conservative about such things, and especially with a rare guitar like this, I think that's the appropriate attitude to have.

 

I have to run right now, but I'll send you a private message later regarding photos.

 

Thanks again for sharing here. It's a thrill just seeing the photos of it.

 

Thanks,

 

I have sent off pictures to George Gruhn. I asked him for an online appraisal. That will give me an idea of the value and will discuss with him the restoration.

 

Nashville is only about a 2 1/2 hour drive, so may just drive up there and get his take on the restoration in person.

 

Thanks for you interest

[retrorod]

I was given a Gibson Crest by my father in the 60's. The serial number is 38759. The style says it is L5. It is a tag that you can see through the F hole. I can see it was made in Kalamazoo. Was wondering when? Also was looking for recommendations on a little restoration. Not sure how rare it is, but I am the one and only owner and know it is around 50 years old. It was purchased at Sunny Shields Music in East St. Louis Illinois by my dad in the 60's.

 

 

A very sweet and apparently rare treasure you have ,Bama. Thanks for sharing and please keep the Forum udated! I share the curiosity also!

Rod

[JimR56]

Thanks,

 

I have sent off pictures to George Gruhn. I asked him for an online appraisal. That will give me an idea of the value and will discuss with him the restoration.

I'm glad to hear that. By the way, what sort of restoration is needed? The guitar looks to be in wonderful condition.

 

Nashville is only about a 2 1/2 hour drive, so may just drive up there and get his take on the restoration in person.

That would be even better... just be sure to drive carefully!

[BAMA]

I'm glad to hear that. By the way, what sort of restoration is needed? The guitar looks to be in wonderful condition.

 

 

That would be even better... just be sure to drive carefully!

Oxidation on some of the gold. Some fret work. The bridge needs some adjusting. Just does not play as good as it used to.

I have not played it for some time. Mostly play my Fender Strat. Just look at my Gibson.

[JimR56]

Here are BAMA's photos...

 

[j45nick]

Here are BAMA's photos...

 

 

 

All I can say is.....WOW!!!

[BAMA]

Here are BAMA's photos...

 

Thanks Jim

[j45nick]

Oxidation on some of the gold. Some fret work. The bridge needs some adjusting. Just does not play as good as it used to.

I have not played it for some time. Mostly play my Fender Strat. Just look at my Gibson.

 

 

All this guitar needs is a little bit of TLC. PLEASE take it to someone in Nashville who knows what he is doing.

 

Oxidation or peeling of gold plating is normal, and no attempt should be made to "restore" that other than a gentle cleaning by someone knowledgeable. It is part of the guitar's life history.

 

George Gruhn's shop is a good place to start.

[tvguit]

All this guitar needs is a little bit of TLC. PLEASE take it to someone in Nashville who knows what he is doing.

 

Oxidation or peeling of gold plating is normal, and no attempt should be made to "restore" that other than a gentle cleaning by someone knowledgeable. It is part of the guitar's life history.

 

George Gruhn's shop is a good place to start.

 

Thanks for posting those pictures Nick. I just got back to Birmingham. This thing is GORGEOUS!!

 

As nick said, no restoration on this one. It doesn't need any!

[JimR56]

Thanks for posting those pictures Nick.

I just spent about an hour uploading and posting them, so I'll go ahead and take credit for that.

 

I just got back to Birmingham. This thing is GORGEOUS!!

And RARE!

 

As nick said, no restoration on this one. It doesn't need any!

I think BAMA mainly just wants to have it set up to play better. He's kept it very nicely all these years. Who knows how many of the six still exist, so this is just an amazing story. Made my day, I'll tell you that.

[BAMA]

Thanks Jim

 

You are correct I just want it to handle like it once did

[tvguit]

I just spent about an hour uploading and posting them, so I'll go ahead and take credit for that.

 

 

My bad, Jim! Thanks for posting them!

[JimR56]

My pleasure posting the photos. An honor and a pleasure, in fact, and thanks again to BAMA. I still can't believe we're seeing one of these things surface. It's really amazing.

[JimR56]

As I mentioned to BAMA in an e-mail, I learned a few interesting things after posting about this guitar over at the Les Paul discussion forums.

 

Someone asked: "Does anyone else think that this one is a short scale (like a Byrdland) based on the location of the pickups?"

 

My response: Wow, interesting. In my excitement, I didn't even think about that. I'm comparing the photo of this guitar to the one in the Nelson article I linked in the OP, and I'm also looking at the examples in the Tsumura book (page 79), and in Adrian Ingram's L5 book (page 67).

 

The two in the books, and also the one in the Nelson article all have 22 frets, and the pickups and bridges are all located further "south" on the body. The example that turned up today (BAMA's) only has 20 frets, and thus the pickups and bridge are all located further "north". The pickup spacing looks like it might be a little tighter on the 20-fret guitar, but not by much. The space between the bridge and the bridge pickup is wider than on the other three guitars, though.

 

(I've asked BAMA if he could measure the scale on his Crest.)

 

I then noticed another difference...

 

... The headstock on the 20-fret example that turned up today is different in shape from the other three (wider across the lower part, between the "corners" of the headstock), and is the only one with a "stereo" embossed truss rod cover (the others have a pearloid TRC).

 

Only six of these exist (assuming none have been destroyed), and BAMA may have the rarest and most unique of the six!

[retrorod]

And WOW again! Thanks Bama and Jim for getting those pictures to us. I have not taken the time to do any research on this one yet. But off-hand......any ideas on who was the 'brain-child' behind it in 1961.

And is that a litte man-face on the peghead inlay? Symbolic.....obviuosly???

I agree with Nick et al.....I would not mess with the gold-plating other than clean. The guitar probably just needs to be cleaned and set-up proper...

WOW-again....

 

I also agree with the above idea of a Gruhn documentation and appraissal being an excellent idea! I would be curious if has PAF's in it also.

 

Yep, very Byrdland-like!

[j45nick]

I would be curious if has PAF's in it also.

 

Yep, very Byrdland-like!

 

As a '61, it would certainly have PAF's. I don't think you see the patent number versions of those pickups until about 1964.

[stein]

What an great discovery.

 

I realize this ain't for sale, and not suggesting you do, but this guitar might be desitined to become a poster girl, if only to give some folks something to dream about.

 

Already, there is interest and intrique. We might know there are only "6" of them. And this one might even be different than those, given the scale and the truss rod cover. Might this even be a separate one from the 6? Seems a good question, given only 6 were ordered and have a certain "spec".

 

It could even raise a few questions about how rare guitars LIKE these (high-end, custom guitar models) and one-offs are, and when they were made. I don't know much about the subject, but 1961 is an interesting time for such things to happen.

 

The quality and construction I can see in the photos is stunning. There seems to be lots of figure to the wood showing through the cherry finish, and the close-ups show a finish and fine detail that has survived incredibly intact for such an old guitar.

 

I might think it would be worthwhile to continue to check up and research this one. There might be more to learn and discover yet.

[JimR56]

And WOW again! Thanks Bama and Jim for getting those pictures to us. I have not taken the time to do any research on this one yet. But off-hand......any ideas on who was the 'brain-child' behind it in 1961.

Rod, I mentioned this in my first post above (#4).

 

And is that a litte man-face on the peghead inlay? Symbolic.....obviuosly???

Click on the link I posted to the Nelson article. He mentions this on page 14.

 

Yep, very Byrdland-like!

There is a similarity, but BAMA tells me that this Crest actually has a 24 3/4" scale. If only we had another example to inspect, we could compare the nut width on the different Crests. BAMA, if you're reading this, what is the width of the nut on yours? 1 11/16" is standard.