Upgrade meandering while waiting for arrival LP Jr P90

[glennc]

Howdy,

I am now awaiting (possibly 2 weeks) for an exchange Epi LP Jr. Special I P90s. Thinking about making it sound better ideas. Are the value for quality caps and pots the same as for the Gibson P90s? Any opinions appreciated.

Also was thinking of concentric pots, CTS 250K and 500K in one pot with concentric knobs. Could give the LP Jr. individual tone and volume control for each pickup. Again any opinions or ideas, thanks

Glenn

[Bluemans335]

500K pots are the norm for HB's and P-90's, although Gibson tends to use 300K volume pots. That's a good idea on the bridge to make it a little warmer and fuller, but can make the neck a little dark. I always used 500K's for neck P-90's and HB's, except in some Les Pauls where I use 1meg pots in the neck for the additional high end (archtop Les Pauls tend to be pretty warm-toned).

 

You don't need tone pots for neck PU's, excess treble is rarely a problem there, one 500K will give you a more open sound. Concentric pots are much more expensive and aren't as durable as regular pots. Not worth the money. I wouldn't use them. If you've only got 2 pots to work with, I'd make one a 500K volume for the neck PU, and the other a 250K volume for the bridge PU. If you wire them for independent volume controls (switch lugs the toggle hot wire goes to - easy to do, there's diagrams online), you can blend the PU's in the middle position and get a warmer, fuller sound that way. I wire all my guitars for independent volume controls, and in the middle toggle position like to put the bridge volume pot on 10 and the neck volume on 7. Nice beefy tone. Fuller than the bridge, and more cut than the neck.

[glennc]

500K pots are the norm for HB's and P-90's, although Gibson tends to use 300K volume pots. That's a good idea on the bridge to make it a little warmer and fuller, but can make the neck a little dark. I always used 500K's for neck P-90's and HB's, except in some Les Pauls where I use 1meg pots in the neck for the additional high end (archtop Les Pauls tend to be pretty warm-toned).

 

You don't need tone pots for neck PU's, excess treble is rarely a problem there, one 500K will give you a more open sound. Concentric pots are much more expensive and aren't as durable as regular pots. Not worth the money. I wouldn't use them. If you've only got 2 pots to work with, I'd make one a 500K volume for the neck PU, and the other a 250K volume for the bridge PU. If you wire them for independent volume controls (switch lugs the toggle hot wire goes to - easy to do, there's diagrams online), you can blend the PU's in the middle position and get a warmer, fuller sound that way. I wire all my guitars for independent volume controls, and in the middle toggle position like to put the bridge volume pot on 10 and the neck volume on 7. Nice beefy tone. Fuller than the bridge, and more cut than the neck.

 

Howdy Bluemans335,

I've found CTS brand concentric pots at $12.95 new. I just figured that only a three holes in the guitar that this would give me full control as on a say Gibson LP Jr with P90s. I believe they have different values like 500K and 500K and thus it would give me a fuller range of control without having to alter the guitar excessively. From your information I quess I'd have to play around with the tone cap values...

Do you know what the pot and cap values are in the Epi LP Jr. P90s, stock?

I've found that on a Les Paul with a 57 Classic and a 57+ that wired in 50's style I get a pleasing varity of sound with mainly the volume pots when I am using both pickups and to a lesser degree the tone pots. While using single pickups the tone pots become much more necessary.

Thanks for the input!

Glenn

[Bluemans335]

Epi's almost invariably use 500K pots, audio taper, and .022 caps. No need to use any different caps.

 

With independent volume controls you can blend the PU's in any increments, and get a warmer sound than the bridge by itself, or a brighter sound than the neck by itself. This can negate the need for a bridge tone pot, and a neck tone pot isn't needed in the first place. I'd do everything I could to avoid using a concentric pot.

 

Remember, if your bridge is too bright, a warmer magnet of two in that PU gets the treble where you want it. Ideally, both PU's should be EQ'd together with both tone pots on '10.' You dial in one amp setting, and it works great for both PU's.

[glennc]

Epi's almost invariably use 500K pots, audio taper, and .022 caps. No need to use any different caps.

 

With independent volume controls you can blend the PU's in any increments, and get a warmer sound than the bridge by itself, or a brighter sound than the neck by itself. This can negate the need for a bridge tone pot, and a neck tone pot isn't needed in the first place. I'd do everything I could to avoid using a concentric pot.

 

Remember, if your bridge is too bright, a warmer magnet of two in that PU gets the treble where you want it. Ideally, both PU's should be EQ'd together with both tone pots on '10.' You dial in one amp setting, and it works great for both PU's.

 

Thank you Sir! The info on the Special's component is invaluable. As thin as the body of the guitar is, I wonder if there will be enough room for stacked pots. Also for you informative info on the P90s and the various configurations I will have available. Much appreciated. I am not quite sure though on the strong negative appeal that the concentric pots have in your experienced view?

Glenn

[Bluemans335]

Thank you Sir! The info on the Special's component is invaluable. As thin as the body of the guitar is, I wonder if there will be enough room for stacked pots. Also for you informative info on the P90s and the various configurations I will have available. Much appreciated. I am not quite sure though on the strong negative appeal that the concentric pots have in your experienced view?

Glenn

 

Haven't ever found concentrics necessary, but have heard enough complaints to keep me from using them (delicate, hard to use on stage, etc). I've got several guitars that have only two pots, and use the ways I described to wire them.

[glennc]

Haven't ever found concentrics necessary, but have heard enough complaints to keep me from using them (delicate, hard to use on stage, etc). I've got several guitars that have only two pots, and use the ways I described to wire them.

 

Thank you for your time, info and opinions. Since I do bedroom, it may still be a viable option for me...

Glenn

[glennc]

More bad luck.... Received the Epi LP Jr. Special I P90s in TV worn yellow. It was reputedly physically checked at the warehouse due to previous poor quality issues with one of these and another guitar. Well it got here Tuesday with a bad scratch/gouge on the back of the neck. Back it went and I do not care to go another round. I locally picked up an Epi LP Jr with 1 humbucker. What an IMHO fabulous guitar. Setup was spot on, great playability and a pretty good sound. Will probably use the refund from the Special I to fund a better pickup, pots and such. Quite displeased with the service of the company I purchased the Special I from....

Trying to decide what pickup to put in the Jr. Since I won't have the P90 sound I was thinking of putting a humbucker sized P90 in this one. Maybe a GFS Mean 90 or a Seymour Duncan Phat Cat. Wish I had the bucks for a Bare Knuckle Missippi Queen. We'll see what turns up.

Thanks again for all the help!

Glenn

[Bluemans335]

picked up an Epi LP Jr with 1 humbucker. What an IMHO fabulous guitar. Setup was spot on, great playability and a pretty good sound. Will probably use the refund from the Special I to fund a better pickup, pots and such. Quite displeased with the service of the company I purchased the Special I from....

Trying to decide what pickup to put in the Jr. Since I won't have the P90 sound I was thinking of putting a humbucker sized P90 in this one. Maybe a GFS Mean 90 or a Seymour Duncan Phat Cat.

 

I'd go with a GFS Mean 90. They get great reviews on the Duncan site, and we're notoriously picky there. Mean 90's have A5 magnets, like almost every other P-90 in the world, you get that classic sound. Phat Cats have A2's which I don't think work all that well in a P-90. In the bridge slot they're pretty weak and thin. I have a bunch of Phat Cats myself, and have swapped out all of the A2's.

[glennc]

I'd got with a GFS Mean 90. They get great reviews on the Duncan site, and we're notoriously picky there. Mean 90's have A5 magnets, like almost every other P-90 in the world, you get that classic sound. Phat Cats have A2's which I don't think work all that well in a P-90. In the bridge slot they're pretty weak and thin. I have a bunch of Phat Cats myself, and have swapped out all of the A2's.

 

Howdy Bluemans335,

Thanks as always for your time and good information. I really do not wish to experiment too much and was concerned over the inexpensive nature of the GFS products. Wondering on quality. Plus aren't the Phat Cats, American made? Well the point is that the P90 sound is what I wan't. You could even hear it in the Epi Special I guitar with the Chinese P90s.

So, you feel that you are getting a more classic sound out of the GFS rather than the SD altered Phat Cats? Cash wise I may be forced down the GFS path unless I find something used.

Appreciated

Glenn

[Bluemans335]

Howdy Bluemans335,

Thanks as always for your time and good information. I really do not wish to experiment too much and was concerned over the inexpensive nature of the GFS products. Wondering on quality. Plus aren't the Phat Cats, American made? Well the point is that the P90 sound is what I wan't. You could even hear it in the Epi Special I guitar with the Chinese P90s.

So, you feel that you are getting a more classic sound out of the GFS rather than the SD altered Phat Cats? Cash wise I may be forced down the GFS path unless I find something used.

Appreciated

Glenn

 

Don't let the price of GFS Mean 90's fool you, they're high quality. Phat Cats are American-made but have several drawbacks, which need to be addressed: 1) They don't have a separate (third) wire for ground (Mean 90's do) which helps reduce noise, 2) there's no screws to hold the baseplate to the coils, like on every other P-90 (with Phat Cats, the cover holds the entire PU together, which is a poor way to do it), and 3) they don't sound much like P-90's with their A2 magnets (very dark neck, weak bridge). Phat Cats seem like they were designed in a hurry, and Duncan needs to go back and revamp them to make them more competitive. Mean 90's are made better and half the price. Many guys on the Duncan site speak highly of Mean 90's.

[glennc]

Don't let the price of GFS Mean 90's fool you, they're high quality. Phat Cats are American-made but have several drawbacks, which need to be addressed: 1) They don't have a separate (third) wire for ground (Mean 90's do) which helps reduce noise, 2) there's no screws to hold the baseplate to the coils, like on every other P-90 (with Phat Cats, the cover holds the entire PU together, which is a poor way to do it), and 3) they don't sound much like P-90's with their A2 magnets (very dark neck, weak bridge). Phat Cats seem like they were designed in a hurry, and Duncan needs to go back and revamp them to make them more competitive. Mean 90's are made better and half the price. Many guys on the Duncan site speak highly of Mean 90's.

 

I am convinced and ordered a Mean 90 Bridge yesterday. Can't wait to get it an plug it in. Thanks. Going to get I guess the RS Guitarworks LP Jr. Kit with pots and PIO cap. Need new knobs and a switchcraft jack and I should be good to go. Amazing, the guitar is staying in tune quite well. But I believe a good nut will be in order too. What type do you suggest? I've always had bone installed.

Glenn