1961 Gibson Hummingbird

[58 Relic]

1462145723[/url]' post='1765826']

I'd love to hear some perspectives from the 70s -- we ignored "folk rock" and even the Beatles and the Stones. Followed some singer-songwriters a bit in the late 60s and early 70s but then went over to the dark side when we joined the traditional bluegrass community and left civilization. We did not follow the rise of Taylor. I bought a Gibson J-40 in 1971 -- I wanted a good guitar. I was not -- the 1960 LG-1 was not better.

 

Gibson acoustic wise, what happened in those years? Who did what too whom? Who was paying attention and has some first hand perspective?

 

Best,

 

-Tom

 

Really enjoying reading this thread as a player born in 1958 I missed most of the beginning of our wonderful music but here goes . The first encounter I had with a Gibson Acoustic guitar was when I was the grand age of five , the location , my friends birthday , his father was a really good guitarist and he let me try to wrestle and strum the strings on his guitar , I was hooked . The first single I ever heard was Apache by the Shadows and that my friends was the soundtrack to my early years together later with the beautiful voice of Olivia Newton John . I remember bunking of school in the afternoon just to go and look at the Burns Marvins in the guitar shop in Romford close to the Burns factory .Growing up the makes of guitars - yes you're right they were the generically designed red sunburnt copy's of the hummingbird together with makes such as Columbus , Commadore , Antoria .Fast forward to early teens and it was fuelled by the sounds of Quo , Glam Rock together with the advent of Queen and you can't forget the impact that Top of The Pops had on a 70s male , that video of Bowie singing Starman to me is iconic. But for me later I lived in the small world of the 70s and 80s folk and country scene listening to players like Dylan The Eagles the Birds and CS and Nash and later the desert rose band but my favourite and always has been , Ralph Mc Tell .Guitars got slowly better Shafesbury or Yamaha copy's weren't that bad but you always wanted a 70s Fender or Gibson my first real guitar was a 70s Telecaster followed by a Yamaha SG2000 but the three guitars a always wanted, a Burns Marvin a J45 and a Hummingbird . The first two I have and I treasure , so you can guess what's on the radar next ! Yes a Hummingbird . Just looking at the new Vintage version brought it all back . I talk to my close friend often about this for hours sometimes and now and again I wish I was born ten years earlier so I could have lived through the advent of all this ,but the 1970s were magic to any teenager let alone a guitar playing one . You ate , slept and drank guitars and funny enough I still do today , thankfully , what would we do without them !!

 

[Lukec88]

I really enjoyed reading your stories guys!

 

If someone choose to buy vintage Hummingbird for example, what year of production is better to avoid (build wise)? Its known that Gibson had some rise and falls in their history of production, is that affecting hummingbird models too?

[OldCowboy]

I really enjoyed reading your stories guys!

 

If someone choose to buy vintage Hummingbird for example, what year of production is better to avoid (build wise)? Its known that Gibson had some rise and falls in their history of production, is that affecting hummingbird models too?

I never met a 'bird from the 1970s that was worth spit. Avoid any that have block inlays in the fretboard (they're the '70s models). Be cautious of earlier models that have a screwed-down pickguard: some are decent, others mediocre. Otherwise, it's about like looking for the one you can bond with, same as any other make or model. There are some real gems and some real clunkers - you'll know when the right one is in your hands. There will be easily noticed differences in brightness, volume, and sustain.

[E-minor7]

There are some real gems and some real clunkers - you'll know when the right one is in your hands. There will be easily noticed differences in brightness, volume, and sustain.

 

Yes, Luke, , , it will be necessary for you to look inside the 70's Gibsons to see if they contain socks - could 1 be or 2 pairs, , , could be totally full of them.

 

If I may add to OldC, you can sense the real deal in the response - meaning the projection, which will be very light and generous in the old goodies. Then again taste is beyond discussion and there will be good broken in squares from 1968/70 and forward out there.

 

Note this : From 1968 to 70 they get bulkier braces - and from 1970 they take the full step towards heavy or locked by introducing the double X-bracing.

One of the most controversial decisions of all guitar-time. .

[OldCowboy]

I'd love to hear some perspectives from the 70s -- we ignored "folk rock" and even the Beatles and the Stones. Followed some singer-songwriters a bit in the late 60s and early 70s but then went over to the dark side when we joined the traditional bluegrass community and left civilization. We did not follow the rise of Taylor. I bought a Gibson J-40 in 1971 -- I wanted a good guitar. I was not -- the 1960 LG-1 was not better.

 

Gibson acoustic wise, what happened in those years? Who did what too whom? Who was paying attention and has some first hand perspective?

 

Best,

 

-Tom

I was there, but not sure just what kind of information you'd find interesting. Other than listening to some of the music from the '70s via recordings, my firsthand encounters were with musicians like Bruce Phillips, Jim Ringer and Mary McCaslin, Luke Baldwin, and such like who were recording for small labels (Philo, for example) and touring from one coast to the other and back, usually to promote their latest or upcoming album. I was also around Gibson, the Kalamazoo area, enough to have some oddball knowledge about some things, but not on a corporate or decision-making level. My first 'factory tour' of the Parsons Street facility was conducted solo on a day when production wasn't running. The plastic bridge on an LG-1 I owned at the time had malfunctioned, and I'd wandered through most of the factory, guitar in hand, searching for customer service, before someone finally noticed me. This was around 1969, if memory serves. Anyhow, if there's anything I can tell you, I'll be happy to share....

[E-minor7]

I was there, but not sure just what kind of information you'd find interesting. Other than listening to some of the music from the '70s via recordings, my firsthand encounters were with musicians like Bruce Phillips, Jim Ringer and Mary McCaslin, Luke Baldwin, and such like who were recording for small labels (Philo, for example) and touring from one coast to the other and back, usually to promote their latest or upcoming album. I was also around Gibson, the Kalamazoo area, enough to have some oddball knowledge about some things, but not on a corporate or decision-making level. My first 'factory tour' of the Parsons Street facility was conducted solo on a day when production wasn't running. The plastic bridge on an LG-1 I owned at the time had malfunctioned, and I'd wandered through most of the factory, guitar in hand, searching for customer service, before someone finally noticed me. This was around 1969, if memory serves. Anyhow, if there's anything I can tell you, I'll be happy to share....

 

Wow, that's inside-knowledge in the truest sense of the word.

 

Which guitars did you see, , , how many employees could have been around by then, , , and not least : What happened to the plastic bridged LG-1 ???

 

 

 

[OldCowboy]

Yes, Luke, , , it will be necessary for you to look inside the 70's Gibsons to see if they contain socks - could 1 or 2 pairs, , , could be totally full of them.

 

If I may add to OldC, you can sense the real deal in the response - meaning the projection, which will be very light and generous in the old goodies. Then again taste is beyond discussion and there will be good broken in squares from 1968/70 and forward out there.

 

Note this : From 1968 to 70 they get bulkier braces - and from 1970 they take the full step towards heavy or locked by introducing the double X-bracing.

One of the most controversial decisions of all guitar-time. .

Yep - the heavier the bracing, the more old socks are stuffed in there, for sure! Also, if you can see the outline of the braces (they look almost back-lit) on the guitar top, run in terror. That was one of the most ill-advised attempts to speed production in the history of the guitar!

[OldCowboy]

 

Wow, that's inside-knowledge in the truest sense of the word.

 

Which guitars did you see, , , how many employees could have been around by then, , , and not least : What happened to the plastic bridged LG-1 ???

The guitars I saw were, as I now realize, several 'batches' in different stages of completion. A rack of assembled, unfinished J-45s or 50s, bodies of same waiting for necks, luthier's benches with

fretwork and the like waiting to happen - also wandered through the break room (it wasn't much) and noticed that not a few work stations were equipped with commercial-sized jars of peanut butter, which bothered me for years until a former employee mentioned in idle conversation that a vendor stopped by the factory every six weeks or so and sold the guys peanut butter for cheap that they'd use to make sandwiches for lunch. He also told me that they used their standard-issue six inch steel rulers to spread the stuff.... As far as the LG-1 is concerned, I left it there for a new bridge to be installed and picked it up a month later.

[Lukec88]

Thank You for very useful information! Even If I don't plan to buy hummingbird in near future, I really love expanding my knowlage about guitars, specially the old vintage ones that I don't know much of. Before I got my gibby I read the history of Gibson acoustic factory, watched alot of factory tour videos, Ren Ferguson and all sort of videos about Gibson heritage.

 

Thats why I love my Gibson acoustic because of the heritage of company, the same production methods like on the beginning and of course the tone which would not be the same if methods changed.. And style ofc.. they are gorgeous! :)

[j45nick]

. My first 'factory tour' of the Parsons Street facility was conducted solo on a day when production wasn't running. The plastic bridge on an LG-1 I owned at the time had malfunctioned, and I'd wandered through most of the factory, guitar in hand, searching for customer service, before someone finally noticed me. This was around 1969, if memory serves. Anyhow, if there's anything I can tell you, I'll be happy to share....

 

 

That reminds me of the only time I was at the Martin plant in Nazareth, in about 1971. Five of us were in an extended Ford van, on our way back to NYC after a college coffee house circuit tour in Ohio. I wanted to drop off for restoration the old Martin New Yorker I had found in pieces while the band was in Oxford.

 

Main production was moving into the new plant then, but as I recall, the repair department and a lot things were still in the old North Street facility.

 

It was a weekend, but I had called ahead and someone (can't remember who, but I'm eternally grateful) agreed to come down to meet us so I could drop off the guitar. We were full-on hippie folk-rock in appearance in those days, but it didn't phase the guy one bit, maybe since we had a couple of Martins in the van, and were touring musicians.

 

He took us in and wrote up the guitar, looked at us, and said "would you like to see the factory?" Oh yes, we would.

 

It was a magical place, but don't ask me what guitars I saw. It was a place where the wood storage room had an overpowering sweet smell from huge racks of rosewood. All you saw everywhere was wood, machinery, pieces of guitars, half finished guitars, and more guitars. We were primarily in the area where they did repairs, so you can just imagine what was probably there.

 

We were pretty quiet for a while after we got back on the road.

[OldCowboy]

That reminds me of the only time I was at the Martin plant in Nazareth, in about 1971. Five of us were in an extended Ford van, on our way back to NYC after a college coffee house circuit tour in Ohio. I wanted to drop off for restoration the old Martin New Yorker I had found in pieces while the band was in Oxford.

 

Main production was moving into the new plant then, but as I recall, the repair department and a lot things were still in the old North Street facility.

 

It was a weekend, but I had called ahead and someone (can't remember who, but I'm eternally grateful) agreed to come down to meet us so I could drop off the guitar. We were full-on hippie folk-rock in appearance in those days, but it didn't phase the guy one bit, maybe since we had a couple of Martins in the van, and were touring musicians.

 

He took us in and wrote up the guitar, looked at us, and said "would you like to see the factory?" Oh yes, we would.

 

It was a magical place, but don't ask me what guitars I saw. It was a place where the wood storage room had an overpowering sweet smell from huge racks of rosewood. All you saw everywhere was wood, machinery, pieces of guitars, half finished guitars, and more guitars. We were primarily in the area where they did repairs, so you can just imagine what was probably there.

 

We were pretty quiet for a while after we got back on the road.

I can well imagine being a bit humbled after that experience! By the sound of it, you were a lot more cutting edge for the times than I was. NYC moved more rapidly than most areas in the boonies. I was pretty much a long-haired redneck, but then so were most of the guys working for Gibson at the time (with shorter hair, though).

[E-minor7]

As far as the LG-1 is concerned, I left it there for a new bridge to be installed and picked it up a month later.

 

Delicate observations from way back then - peanut-butter by steel rulers, hahe. Believe the 45/50's were squares.

Regarding the bridge, I wondered if the new one was wooden or you remained plastic. And how you took it - and if they wanted your acceptance - in case they changed to rose.

 

The Nick-story about a bunch of musical hippies visiting Martin in Nazareth makes a fine little super-8 film.

I presume there's no need to ask if The Weight was played in that van.

 

Unfortunately I cannot contribute to the guitar plant tales. Closest I got was a visit to Stetsons main office somewhere up in The Empire State Building as a young man. Happened by coincidence, me and my buddy had been up all night and were, , , loaded. The Stetson-people however, took us from above and provided excellent service from the minute we walked in. Showed the classic models on the walls, Bogarts, Hopalong Cassidys, The Sting-30's models etc. and even gave us papers. Never forgot that - and the pr-value they got via me from that over the years must have been worth it. Didn't buy no hat though - that happened on the street down in China-town instead. A grey cap with pushbutton on the brim which still is alive.

 

Back to Gibsons, , , which btw were extremely rare here through the 70's. A room with an acoustic G was sensational, , , nothing less.

[j45nick]

I can well imagine being a bit humbled after that experience! By the sound of it, you were a lot more cutting edge for the times than I was. NYC moved more rapidly than most areas in the boonies. I was pretty much a long-haired redneck, but then so were most of the guys working for Gibson at the time (with shorter hair, though).

 

 

The group I worked for--I was doing sound then--were talented and professional. Two the three were conservatory trained (Eastman), the guy in French horn and composition, his wife in opera(!) and keyboard. The other guy was sort of a folkie--big, good-looking guy with a droopy mustache, long blonde hair, a sweet voice, and a D-28. The group leader doubled on Hummingbird and electric piano, and his wife was singer/keyboards. I spent a bit over a year rehearsing, touring, and in the studio with them, from New England and New York through the Midwest. They released a couple of singles on Mercury, but never really went anywhere. After I left, they expanded to include drums and horns (think the B,S,&T influence cited below) but now you're talking about real costs and effort to maintain a group, especially if any of them are studio musicians with regular gigs.

 

That's the story of many, many groups in that era. The competition really was fierce, and you needed luck, a pushy manager, and a record company willing to put money into promoting you. The record companies had a lot of talent to choose from, and they didn't waste much money on you if you didn't succeed right out of the box. The difference between major success and "nobody" was razor-thin in a lot of cases, although real talent often triumphed against the odds.

 

We did a week at Gerde's Folk city, with Kate McGarrigle opening for us. Gerde's sound system wasn't that good, so I patched her into our system and did her sound, instead of hanging out backstage with my own guys. Thirty seconds into her first song, I said to myself "holy crap, this girl's got talent." Maybe I should have tried for a career in A&R. I could recognize talent, even when I had none.

 

One problem for the guys I worked with was that several of their conservatory-trained buddies had done really well in mass popular music--Louis Soloff and Richard Halligan of Blood, Sweat, and Tears--but that type of success was hard to replicate without being at the right place at the right time with the right talent. One time Halligan rolled up to their apartment in NYC for dinner, and his limo sat outside for four hours with the engine running while he slummed with them for the evening. They were touring in a Ford van to college campus coffee houses, basically playing for $100 a night per person, and he was playing venues with 20,000 people for God knows how much money.

 

Lots of great things happened to me during my time with them, but it was back to reality after about a year. All of the New York recording studios were closed union shops (NABET--National Association of Broadcast Employees and Technicians), with no hope for an outsider like me to even get into the union, much less get work beyond what I was doing. In the recording studio, I couldn't even touch the board, even though I helped create the sound on the road that was carried over into the studio.

 

Not carrying on in the business was probably the best thing that ever happened to me, in hindsight.

[OldCowboy]

The LG-1 got a replacement, rectangular fixed bridge - there was no mention of a plastic replacement on either side, although I was offered the option of an adjustable saddle and politely declined. The guitar sounded a bit better after the replacement, but not enough to qualify as a 'keeper'. When my internet feels a little more cooperative, I'll tell you what happened with a friend's Super 400 when it went back for a refinish. Also about an AJ that went back with a smashed rim....

[j45nick]

The LG-1 got a replacement, rectangular fixed bridge - there was no mention of a plastic replacement on either side, although I was offered the option of an adjustable saddle and politely declined. The guitar sounded a bit better after the replacement, but not enough to qualify as a 'keeper'. When my internet feels a little more cooperative, I'll tell you what happened with a friend's Super 400 when it went back for a refinish. Also about an AJ that went back with a smashed rim....

 

 

Factory repairs can be a roll of the dice. I've told the story here several times of my 1948 J-45 going back to Gibson in 1968 to re-glue a part of the top that had come loose in an airline baggage handling accident.

 

The guitar came back with a new top, adjustable bridge, modified neck, and a brand-new cherry sunburst. Not exactly what I expected or wanted.

[OldCowboy]

Factory repairs can be a roll of the dice. I've told the story here several times of my 1948 J-45 going back to Gibson in 1968 to re-glue a part of the top that had come loose in an airline baggage handling accident.

 

The guitar came back with a new top, adjustable bridge, modified neck, and a brand-new cherry sunburst. Not exactly what I expected or wanted.

Oh, Lord, that must have been painful! The smashed-rim AJ came back with a brand new treble side rim. Only problem, it was mahogany. The Super 400 got an excellent refin, but had lost over half its volume. We later discovered that the box had been stuffed full of rags before the procedure and that nobody had bothered to remove 'em afterward. Then there was the vintage J-185 that went in for a bridge reglue and came back with a completely different bridge - minus the inlays....

[E-minor7]

 

 

To continue the historical perspective, we have to bring this one up - It's finally here.

 

No it's NOT Gibson territory, but hopefully Bozeman will be inspired.

 

Would be so welcome to see the G-pendant to this film, , , including the square phase, , let's say up to 1967.

 

But maybe the particular changes right there block the idea - simply because things got too controversial after that.

 

Anyway - as said, this is an acoustic must.

 

ENJOY -

 

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=h1CZBgN5fwc

[Lukec88]

To continue the historical perspective, we have to bring this one up - It's finally here.

 

No it's NOT Gibson territory, but hopefully Bozeman will be inspired.

 

Would be so welcome to see the G-pendant to this film, , , including the square phase, , let's say up to 1967.

 

But maybe the particular changes right there block the idea - simply because things got too controversial after that.

 

Anyway - as said, this is an acoustic must.

 

ENJOY -

 

 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=h1CZBgN5fwc

 

Thanks for the documentary!

[Fullmental Alpinist]

Excellent video Em7. Thanks for posting it.

 

And as you stated it would be nice if Gibson would produce some vids on the role of their guitars in the past century.

[E-minor7]

And as you stated it would be nice if Gibson would produce some vids on the role of their guitars in the past century.

 

That would be the way to go - take it chronological, but zoom in on the significant classics and a few outsiders.

 

Anecdotes, straight facts and unheard of secrets mixed like carrots, meatballs and holy spice in a soup.

 

Interviewees could start with a couple of old 50's singers and then continue with folks like Donovan, James Taylor, Jackson Browne, Ralf McTell, Sheryl Crow and a few newbies, who got the G-bug and know what it means.

 

And of course mister Jagger, , , , almost sure we won't get Richards goin', , but maybe Wood would come out to play. .