shane805 Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 hey there guys, got a bit of a problem here with my new epiphone dot deluxe... i picked this thing up a couple months ago and it worked fine... suddenly one day a ground somewhere decided to come out of place. the guitar plays decently when i hold my finger on the metal part of the input jack... it sounds a little quiet still so im thinking it must be something else. my first question would be... do all the volume/tone pots have their own separate grounds? if so would one of those coming off cause my guitar to become ungrounded and buzz? my next guess would be the pickup switch... i just thought id get some opinions before i went ahead and started fishing parts through that little f hole... i sure wish there was a back panel to this guitar it seems really hard to work on since the only openings are those 2 f holes. ive already fished the input jack through to check it and it seems fine has anyone had to work on one of these things before? noootttt fun... welp lemme know what you think guys.. i can take some pics if need be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Unfortunately, you can't diagnose what you can't see. You'll probably have to pull everything out to find and fix your problem. Here's a video that'll help you work on your semi-hollow: http://www.mojotone.com/iMojo-Videos/Installing-a-Mojotone-335-Assembly Note: there's a bridge (or tailpiece) ground wire that needs to be connected, too. And that may well be the problem. Some members may recommend that you replace the innards with CTS parts. It's not a bad idea for reliability reasons, it's your choice, it won't improve the tone of your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalfarm Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 Quick Question: Did any of your parts (Jack, Knobs, or Switch) spin around freely/loose before this problem started? If one of the above did, may help isolate your problem. Loose components spinning around break wires, and that would be where I'd start looking. Beyond that, here's a link from the EPI LOUNGE "Do-it-Yourself" thread for you to look at also involving repairing the electronics in a "Hollowbody".... "ES-335/SEMI HOLLOWBODY Electronics Removal and Installation" http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/tonefreaks/40089-335-electronics-installation-k-how-take-years-off-your-life.html Keep us updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 All parts are grounded directly or indirectly to your jack. If you have one single loose or bad ground contact you can test for it by cutting a piece of wire and stripping the ends. Connect one end under the nut that holds your jack. Touch the other end to the metal on each part of your guitar one at a time. (ie. pots, bridge, switch) As Fringe pointed out it doesn't make much difference as you will still have to remove everything to fix it. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane805 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 Yeah actually this ground problem started shortly after i tightened all the volume and tone pots, they were all loose when i got it. i'll try that trick you suggested willy, but yeah fringe is right... after watching that video it looks like ill have to just about take everything out anyways... how come they dont put panels on the backs of these things? does it really change the tone that much to have even a little panel the size of a pickup or something right over all the electronics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 When you tighten components, you need to prevent them from spinning while tightening the nut. Fairly easy with the pots, a little more difficult with the switch and jack. Be careful when reinstalling. The construction of hollowbodies doesn't lend itself to access panels. I've read about some owners, stymied by the problem, having cut an access hole in the back of the guitar. BTW, I would recommend replacing the jack while you're at it. The Epi stock jacks are notorious for continually coming loose. A new Switchcraft unit will cost all of $1.99: http://www.music123.com/Accessories/Cables-Snakes/Jacks-Plugs/1-4-Female-Phone-Jack.site7sku335002000000000.sku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The jack is the most likely culprit, the ground wires come loose if they've been turned when tightened down and it twisted the wires. It could be a loose ground elswhere, but you can usually pull the jack up to the f-hole without disturbing anything else to check. Attach a pull string to the jack so you can pull it back through the hole easily after inspection/repair. Also a dental mirror and mini flashlight can help to find loose wires visually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane805 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Share Posted January 13, 2011 when i hold two fingers on the guitar, one on the surface of the switch(the metal washer type thing ontop of the guitar), and one on the bridge... it works perfect. does that mean the bridge ground is the problem? i cannot figure out how to get to it. its blocked from both the f holes, and when i take the bridge off only the bottom pole reacts to touch when plugged into a little amp. it seems like it might screw off, but i'm not sure... don't want to damage my guitar. let me know what you guys think. also i tried all the pots to make sure they all work while i was holding my hand there and they all work along with the switch in all positions http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/dyglOkEkfmHyeBNbnFzxkp4mRK_pGRWDNtU7s20vq4A?feat=directlink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 The bridge is grounded via a wire jammed between one bridge post stud and the wood within stud hole. You can't see it unless you remove the stud from the guitar. The other stud is only grounded when the bridge is attached to both studs. If it is shorted then it had to have happened at one of the pots, perhaps when you tightened it, if it spun around and twisted the bridge ground wire off. That's a relatively easy fix because it means you only need to find which pot it come off of and resolder it. Here's a typical wiring diagram that may indicate which pot to look at (it says tone pot closest to bridge but it may be different on your guitar): http://www.seymourdu...tic=2h_2v_2t_3w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 PS, do you have an ohm meter? It's relatively easy to trace a bad ground if you can borrow one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 13, 2011 Share Posted January 13, 2011 That's a relatively easy fix because it means you only need to find which pot it come off of and resolder it. If it is indeed the bridge ground that detached, it doesn't matter where it gets grounded; only that it does get grounded. Ground is ground; location doesn't matter. Shane: For clarity sake, that's the tailpiece you have your finger on; not the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Fringe is right, that's the tail not the bridge. Your guit is grounded to the tail post stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane805 Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 i found at last one problem when lookin at all the electronics... the white wire on the left has came unattached. im having a hard time figuring out what it goes to. im using a wiring diagram from a sheraton 2 because i couldnt find one for my dot deluxe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 i found at last one problem when lookin at all the electronics... the white wire on the left has came unattached. im having a hard time figuring out what it goes to. im using a wiring diagram from a sheraton 2 because i couldnt find one for my dot deluxe The Sheraton diagam should be OK, most 335 type guitars are wired the same unless they have coil taps/splits, Varitone, or other non-standard switching. But white is usually "hot", not ground so that's a concern. Can you post some pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane805 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 yeah my bad, i thought i had it attached on the last one http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/jq4C-7n_uiL1ucZFZlYjIQ?feat=directlink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane805 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 the blue wire on the left is going to the jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Ok, it's really hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like the loose lead came off the volume or tone pot with the red wires. on it. Can you see any tabs or solder points on the pots that have solder on them but no wire? Can you post closeup pics of the pots with tabs showing? PS, now that you've got it this far apart, it would be a great time to upgrade that jack (and switch) to switchcraft... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Kudos to Shane for taking his guitar apart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane805 Posted January 29, 2011 Author Share Posted January 29, 2011 fringe, it was easier than i thought it would be, glad you guys inspired me to try. now the hard part... fixing the damn thing. the tone and volume pots with the red wires look like they have all the same connections as the set that are using the blue wires. nothing looks snapped off or anything. i'm stumped. sorry for the bad picture quality. i can take some more if needed http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/hlIH4g39CnzQz8Sy2WZBdw?feat=directlink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Look REALLY REALLY closely at the tabs and solder joints on the pots. Somewhere there has to evidence of a pulled-off wire. Use a magnifying glass if you have to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Shane, are you aware that some of the wires have a center lead, which is usually used as "hot" and an outer metal jacket, which is used as ground? Perhaps that'll help. Take your time tracing the circuit. It's really not a very complex one, I'm sure you'll see. When you do get it sorted out, getting components back in place can be a bit of a challenge, as can making sure things don't spin as you tighten their nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Shane, I'm going to take a real wild shot here. What confuses me (slightly) is the length of the wire. That being said. It may be a volume pot switch wire. If you look at the volume pot from the picture on your direct link..(Shane's gallery) you can clearly see the switch wire connected to the first volume pot. It is connected to the center leg. Also, all the connection wires are red. Now look at your posted pic. (or your guitar for that matter) If you look at the second volume pot (connection wires are white) I do not see a wire connected to the second leg. There should be a switch wire connected to it.(or is it wrapped under the pot where it can't be seen?) As stated....A wild shot. Lord, I hate Epiphone wiring. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane805 Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 ive noticed the red wire might need to be connected to something as well as the white wire stuffed inside of the red insulation... there isnt much red wire left to work with, but it seems like it was hooked up to something before. havin a hard time finding any evidence of anything pulled off any of the pots. ive tried connecting it with the amp turned on to see if it works and now its only working with the switch up, and also my fingers connecting the switch to that tailpiece. anyone have a wiring diagram that is made for a dot? i cant seem to figure it out with the sheraton II diagram i'm using, and im usually pretty good at this kind of stuff... im really thinkin that ground attched to the tail stud got messed up, gonna pull that thing out later tonight and check it out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shane805 Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 willy, you were correct. thank you so much man, would of taken me some time to figure it out. gonna go get to soldering and re-assembling! can't wait to play this thing again since its my only electric... not that my martin acoustic isnt fun to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Shane, Glad to help. Hope everything else works out alright. P.S. I don't know who gave you a negative vote or why...but I'm voting you up for having the guts to tackle your your problem. Let us know how things work out. Feel free to ask more questions. Keep on as a member. I have a feeling you are going to fit in quite well. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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