Gibsonsg76 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Hi to all Epiphone detectives. I hope you can help me. I bought the Epiphone Casino, pictured, a few years ago. The seller said that he bought it in 1994 in Japan. I still have the receipt from Yamano Music that came with the guitar. The serial number is 45042. So far by looking a various sites some would suggest this guitar was made in Japan, as it has no letters in front of the serial number, and could possibly be from 1970-83. I have included a picture of the original soft leather carry case it came with to help. I'm currently insuring all my gear so a value would be great if someone had an idea. Many thanks in advance for taking the time to read this post and any info is really appreciated. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyg Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 There was a similar Casino to this in a thread I started here. There were some slight differences to yours but it was broadly similar. It's likely that the one you have is a Japanese domestic market model same as the one in the link so the year will be tricky to find out. Who knows, they may still be making them today. However, the Japanese export models made between 1980 and 1984 had 7 numbers, the first number as the year and the second two as the month. For example, 305---- would be May 1983. If that holds true yours may be a '74, '84 or even a '94 As for value, that other one sold from eBay for $1500.00 (UK £960.00). I would say that's probably close to the top end for price (for the UK anyway). The slightly later Matsomuko Casino's and Riviera's go for around the £750.00 - £850.00 mark in the UK($1200.00 - $1400.00 approx). On the other hand, something's worth what someone will pay for it so........ I'm sure someone else will chime in here with more info than that. Here's the link to the thread anyhow > http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/69176-unusual-70s-japanese-casino/page__p__940062__fromsearch__1#entry940062 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibsonsg76 Posted September 28, 2011 Author Share Posted September 28, 2011 Hi thanks for reply much appreciated. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabar Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 If that numbering system is accurate, you can eliminate '74. In '74 the Japanese Epi's weren't true Casinos, but the boltneck EA-250 and it's evil ilk. In '84, the Matsumoku factory was making proper (and very good) Casinos once again, and by '94 most production had shifted to Samick in Korea, with Epiphone Japan making limited numbers for mostly the Japanese market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyg Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 If that numbering system is accurate, you can eliminate '74. In '74 the Japanese Epi's weren't true Casinos, but the boltneck EA-250 and it's evil ilk. Apparently not. This link > http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Epiphone-Vintage-Blue-label-70-Casino-VS-w-HC-Japan-/110696222408?pt=Guitar&hash=item19c6024ec8 will take you to the (finished) eBay auction for a similar Gibson authorised Casino made in Japan for the Japanese domestic market only which the link in my reply to the OP mentioned. It is advertised as a 70's Blue Label. One of the members here actually bought that very guitar. Although the OP's guitar has some differences, the Blue Label is one missing feature, there are many similarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted September 28, 2011 Share Posted September 28, 2011 The JDM Casinos started in approximately 1975. I suppose there is a possibilty that they got an early start at the end of 1974. They were made for the Japanese market only until 1979. In 1980 they were being distributed 'worldwide'' through 1986 or so. Yes, I'm talking about true-blue Matsu Casinos. Not the EA guitars by Aria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Ok, took a closer look and have been doing some research in this area. If I am not mistaken, the year of purchase (1994) in Japan, plus the orange label would make that Casino a Terada JDM. From what I understand, the Orville by Gibsons from Terada during the same era used the orange labels as well. I hope this help...and I hope I am right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straybeat Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I don't know about your insurance company, but I had to take my guitars to a "professional" and have him write up an appraisal. In the event of a loss that is all the insurance company would accept as proof of value. Most companies won't tell you this until you lose it and try to file a claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellercasino Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 There was a similar Casino to this in a thread I started here. There were some slight differences to yours but it was broadly similar. It's likely that the one you have is a Japanese domestic market model same as the one in the link so the year will be tricky to find out. Who knows, they may still be making them today. However, the Japanese export models made between 1980 and 1984 had 7 numbers, the first number as the year and the second two as the month. For example, 305---- would be May 1983. If that holds true yours may be a '74, '84 or even a '94 As for value, that other one sold from eBay for $1500.00 (UK £960.00). I would say that's probably close to the top end for price (for the UK anyway). The slightly later Matsomuko Casino's and Riviera's go for around the £750.00 - £850.00 mark in the UK($1200.00 - $1400.00 approx). On the other hand, something's worth what someone will pay for it so........ I'm sure someone else will chime in here with more info than that. Here's the link to the thread anyhow > http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/69176-unusual-70s-japanese-casino/page__p__940062__fromsearch__1#entry940062 Hi jonnyg, I do not think it is fair to compare my 70s blue label matsumoku casino to this 90s terada casino. The terada version is a good guitar and is superior to the later korean and chinese models but they are not comparable to the matsumoku guitars. When terada first started production the guitars had a similar spec to the brown label 80-86 matsumoku casino with the 16th fret neck joint but then subsequently dropped this in favour of the 17th fret configuration as used by the korean produced guitars. The 76-79 blue label guitars have a much higher spec and quality than not only the terada guitars but also the later brown label matsumoku models. the reason for this is because the blue label were built to a "spec" while the brown label were built to a "price" to make them viable to export and sell at a realistic price. The blue label guitars had different prices for their different finishes. A vintage sunburst casino was more expensive than a natural one as it had a laquer finish as opposd to the natural having a light poly finish. The same was true of the antique sunburst riviera of the same period that also had a laquer finish as opposed to the cherry red having a light poly finish. That is why the vsb casino was 5000 yen more than the natural and the asb riviera being 10000 yen more than the cherry version. There are other differences between the blue and brown label guitars also such as a better quality nickel finish and the use of the period correct nickel kluson tuners as opposed to the cheaper epiphone items found on the brown label versions. The terada guitar in this post is a good guitar but just not the same as a matsumoku. And its almost 20 years newer. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnyg Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Hi wellercasino I'm sorry you didn't think my comparison was "fair". However, I must say in response to your post that there's just so much bull associated with when or where a guitar is made that's supposed to make it superior. I originally bought my “built to a price” ’83 Riviera as a backup for an early 60’s Gibson 335 I owned at the time. Over a reasonably short period it became apparent to me, and others, that the Epiphone outclassed the Gibson in every way except minor finishing details. That doesn’t mean every Gibson is bad and every Epiphone is good, or vice versa, just that mine wasn’t one of the best examples. So, here we have two guitars made around 20 years apart in different parts of the world, one of which should, in practice, have been superior in every way but wasn’t. The OP’s Terada built Casino may be worse, as good as or even better than the Matsumoku model you own. Without playing it or even seeing it, commenting on its quality in comparison to yours is merely speculation. Older doesn’t necessarily equate to better. Frankly, if someone had told me in 1975 that 35 years or so in the future people would be having a pissing contest over which was the best Japanese guitar of the 70’s I would have had them committed. The Japanese copied U.S products and, in general, they mostly fell short of the mark to a greater or lesser degree. That said, the longer they were at it the better they got. So, in the case of Japanese guitars I would say that newer might possibly be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wellercasino Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 I agree with everything you say. I was not trying to say anything derogatory about the brown label guitars but just stating a fact. They are fantastic guitars but they did have to be built to a price to compete in the worldwide market but even then they were still very expensive compared to todays Chinese casinos. To put this in context a matsumoku casino was 70,000 yen in 1976 but a Chinese one today being sold in Japan is only 47,000 yen. Doing the maths that would make the matsumoku About 2000 pounds or 3000 US dollars in today's money I was not trying to cause an argument just trying to put into context the fact that my blue label casino is not as similar to the terada version as you implied. Adrian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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