JimR56
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Posts posted by JimR56
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Thanks for the update! Looks lovely to me. Enjoy it, Filbert.
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2532 stamped on the back of the headstock likely indicates 1961. A 1959 example would not have a serial number stamped on the headstock, but rather a Factory Order Number stamped inside the body. More info here: http://www.guitarhq.com/gibson.html#serial
If you can, please post some photos.
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6 hours ago, WhiteCatzs said:
this one is from the “Norland Era”,
"Norlin". Sometimes those 70's sunbursts used to be referred to as the "guitar pick sunburst", due to the shape of the lighter colored area (especially viewed from the back). Sunbursts had more gradual shading and subtlety before that.
I'm not a fan of Gibsons of that era, but the model is a stone cold classic. The most popular Gibson model of all time, it is said.
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On 3/5/2020 at 4:54 AM, gadams said:
Headstock: The "flower" inlay looks wrong. the cutouts aren't as prominent.
The headstock inlay is generally referred to in the trade (and in reference books by Gruhn, Duchossoir and others) as the "crown" inlay.
I'm not sure what you meant by "cutouts". Perhaps you were talking about the "cutaways"?
I agree that the seller ought to be reported.
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For starters, the model being faked here is an ES-345, not an ES-335. At least you were able to detect some of the red flags. Beyond that, I would just urge everybody to study and learn the basics as well as the fine details about Gibson instruments first, before they think about buying one.
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On 3/1/2020 at 3:49 PM, clamato said:
What can I sell it for and where should I advertise it?
I would check ebay for auction prices. You can also look on Reverb.com and Gbase.com to look for asking prices.
You could try selling it on any of the above sites, or you could sell it in your local area on Craigslist; or, you could consign it to a local guitar shop. There are also some guitar discussion forums that include a section for selling or trading with other members.
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I agree with you, Nick. I noticed (again) right after I posted that the '48 FON range apparently overlaps the '49 range. I thought about editing my post to indicate that, and then I said to myself... "does it really matter?" (1948 vs 1949). Certainly not in terms of collectibility or value.
I checked the orange Duchossoir book, and he indicates a few more details about late-40's FONs:
1. Lower grade models (including the ES-125) usually do not show any FONs until 1949.
2. Guitars from 1947 to the early part of 1949 which do have FONs included a hyphen between the 4-digit number and the 1- or 2-digit suffix.
3. Some time after early 1949, a more consistent numbering system began, without the hyphens.
So, these details would seem to point to 1949. And thanks for prompting me to seek more details. It's always good to keep refreshing the memory on these things, even though I'm sure I'll have to consult the book again the next time the same question arises. 😀
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http://www.guitarhq.com/gibson.html#serial
1949.
Gibson Factory Order Numbers, 1942 to 1951.
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Serial numbers are seldom found on instruments made during WW2, but most (not all) have Factory Order Numbers (FON). These contain a four digit batch number stamped in ink, followed by a two digit sequence number written in red pencil (during WW2 only). After the war, the red pencil wasn't used (and on instruments made during the war, sometimes it's really hard to see the red penciled sequence number). Usually there is no more than 46 instruments (sequence numbers) per batch. Also no batch number with a "1" as the first digit was used during WW2.
Year Factory Order Number ---- -------------------- 1941 G (letter code sometimes seen after FON, i.e. 2586G). 1942 907, 910, 923, 2004, 2005, 7000ish (i.e. 7119) - all 'Banner' logo. 1942 H (letter code sometimes seen after FON, i.e. 7116H). Range 5xxxH to 8xxxH 1943 Range generally 9xx to 22xx, depending on the model. 1944 Range generally 22xx to 29XX, depending on the model, some with no FON. 1945 1xx to 10xx, but many with no FON. 1946 n/a ('Banner' logo no longer used, now script logo with no banner). 1947 700s to 1000s 1948 1100s to 3700s ('Script' logo no longer used, block logo used.) 1949 2000s 1950 3000s to 5000s 1951 6000s to 9000s
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Serial numbers are seldom found on instruments made during WW2, but most (not all) have Factory Order Numbers (FON). These contain a four digit batch number stamped in ink, followed by a two digit sequence number written in red pencil (during WW2 only). After the war, the red pencil wasn't used (and on instruments made during the war, sometimes it's really hard to see the red penciled sequence number). Usually there is no more than 46 instruments (sequence numbers) per batch. Also no batch number with a "1" as the first digit was used during WW2.
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Here's an example that's been made public (image found online):
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On 3/15/2019 at 8:55 AM, Colin Wilson said:
My sincere apologies if this has been posted before. I have a 1968 ES 335.
I know it would often have TDC after the 335 but mine has TBC... is this just a mistake by the person who filled in the label?
Hope you can help!
Kind regards
Colin
On 2/16/2020 at 7:40 AM, Old dude said:I have the same situation, "68" ES335Tbc would like to know more.
Please post images of your labels and guitars.
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Following my last post, I added another post with an image showing a 60's ES335TDC label. The model name was hand written rather than stamped, and the "D" resembled a "b". That post is now gone, and I just see a blue line (above badbluesplayer's post). Can anyone explain this?
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Never seen (or heard of) this. If you can, post photos of the label and the guitar (the more views the better).
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On 2/15/2020 at 3:43 AM, nickt19721 said:
It is for sale at around 1500 USD. Is it worth it?
Before you even think about buying it, you should determine exactly what model SG it is, and whether it's all original. Once you're educated on that, then you can look at online sales and auctions (ebay, reverb.com, gbase) to get an idea of the current market value.
I did a quick search to try to identify it and check for originality, and this was the first link I found: http://www.everythingsg.com/threads/help-on-this-rare-sg-1-from-1971-71.33511/
Maybe not definitive, but at least it's a start.
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If it has "Made In USA" stamped on the back of the head, then that number puts it from 1970-72. Post photos if you can.
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23 hours ago, CrunchyFr0g said:
Thanks very much! It sounds like it probably is indeed 1949.
??? No, your number suggests 1950.
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First of all, I think people need to stop using the term "ES" as if it exclusively corresponds to one particular model (or even a similar group of models). People use it more and more these days to refer to ES-335's (and to a lesser extent, 345's and 355's). Those three models (with all kinds of variants among them), along with the ES-330, are the most talked about ES models I suppose, but Gibson's history included so many different guitars of various designs that all had the ES prefix in their model name. So, if you're asking about a certain guitar to compare to a Byrdland (note the "y" in the spelling, as one of the co-designers was a player named Billy Byrd), then you should specify which one.
If you're referring to the semi-hollows like the 335, then yes, they're another ball of wax altogether. Semi-hollowbodies have laminated maple bodies, and have a solid block of maple running down the center interior of the body. It's a hybrid of a solidbody guitar and a hollowbody guitar. It produces a sound that's between the two in character. It provides more sustain than a fully hollow guitar provides, and generally reduces feedback compared to a fully hollow body. The Byrdland model was a thinline variation on a more traditional style hollowbody jazz guitar with a spruce top. So very different from a semi-hollowbody design.
The ES model that most resembles a Byrdland is the ES-350T. It had a laminated maple top, but it was fully hollow and its shape and dimensions were similar to the Byrdland.
One of Gibson's most popular guitar models of all time is the ES-175, which has been in production since 1949. It's full depth hollowbody guitar, and has been available over the years with both single coil P-90 pickups and humbuckers. That's just one other common example of the many varieties of Gibson "ES" guitar models.
Feedback can be a complicated topic. There are ways to control it, even on guitars that are more prone to it, and there are ways to induce it, even on guitars that are less prone to it.
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I remember seeing this thread before the photos were posted, and then I somehow missed the update with the photos. Beautiful 225!
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That would seem to be a FON (factory order number). Generally, a four-digit number followed by one digit, suggests a date range from 1942 to 1952, and since yours has the modern Gibson headstock logo, that would narrow it down to 1948 to 1952. The listings I refer to (http://www.guitarhq.com/gibson.html#serial) point to 1950 as the year that corresponds with your number. Photos of your guitar might help to confirm this.
Year Factory Order Number ---- -------------------- 1941 G (letter code sometimes seen after FON, i.e. 2586G). 1942 907, 910, 923, 2004, 2005, 7000ish (i.e. 7119) - all 'Banner' logo. 1942 H (letter code sometimes seen after FON, i.e. 7116H). Range 5xxxH to 8xxxH 1943 Range generally 9xx to 22xx, depending on the model. 1944 Range generally 22xx to 29XX, depending on the model, some with no FON. 1945 1xx to 10xx, but many with no FON. 1946 n/a ('Banner' logo no longer used, now script logo with no banner). 1947 700s to 1000s 1948 1100s to 3700s ('Script' logo no longer used, block logo used.) 1949 2000s 1950 3000s to 5000s 1951 6000s to 9000s -
Very good question. I feel like I've seen this design before, but I'm not sure where. I do think you're right that Gibson was doing some "odd" things at the time, with a lot of different tailpiece designs which didn't seem to be exclusive to specific models (or consistent in that sense). A quick search turned up another example on a 1939 L-12: https://www.vintageandrare.com/product/Gibson-L-12-1939-Sunburst-68604
Just out of curiosity, is the serial number stamped or hand-written?
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Photos of the guitar would help, but I would suggest that it may date from 1972.
Serial number info here: http://www.guitarhq.com/gibson.html#serial
Pot code info here: https://www.vintageguitarandbass.com/reading_pot_codes.php
Both point to 1972.
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1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said:
I lived in the Bay Area for 25+ years. Miss it but I was back to SJ last year and it made me sick to see the area I grew up in tuning into LA.
Yeah, I can see how it could be shocking and/or depressing. There were still a lot of orchards and mustard fields in SJ when I was growing up in the late 1950's and into the '60's. Time gradually changes things (a lot of things!).
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Very interesting. I had seen Don interviewed before, and I think I had seen this guitar before, but I'm not sure I remember hearing anything about it being a converted 12-string. I wasn't sure where christophe got the information, so I remained a bit puzzled until I watched the above video at Norm's. At one point, the light reflects off the headstock in such a way that you can see the "ghost" or "shadow" of the original 12-string head inlay which was painted over. For those who don't know what that inlay looked like, here's an image...
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15 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:
Nice 335, but it looks like a plain top to me. I see no flame.
Your reply quoted the post (with photos) from September 19th. It's harder to see the figuring in the top grain in those photos. It's pretty clear in the first photo (in the opening post) from August 20th. I guess we can all debate about different terms like "flame" and "curl", etc etc. Not every guitar with flamed grain has the same amount. Some have more consistent and intense looking "flames". Some guitars have been described as having "subtle flame", where it's less obvious. Obviously there's a spectrum. This guitar doesn't have intense flame, but definitely has a considerable amount of figuring that's quite obvious to the eye in the first photo, and I think a lot of people would call it flamed. No way I would ever call this a plain top.
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On 5/9/2016 at 5:33 AM, L5Larry said:
During Gibson's "Golden Years", hollow body guitars did not have the serial number stamped on the back of the headstock, it was ONLY listed on the paper label glued inside the guitar, so this feature is one of the "historically accurate" features of this reissue.
As it pertains to this reissue of a 1959 guitar, yes, it's accurate to have no number stamped on the back of the headstock. However, the above statement is a bit misleading (wrong, I would argue). I think most people would agree that Gibson's golden years included the 1960's (or at least the first half of the 60's, depending on who you ask), and serial number stamping on the back of the head (on all models) was done starting in 1961.
Model Number
in Instrument ID and information
Posted · Edited by JimR56
This is a little puzzling, and I know little about modern Les Pauls. I tried a couple of web searches, and so far only found this: https://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?147863-Does-anyone-know-how-to-read-Model-Number-Coding
The "+" is supposed to indicate a "plus" (more flamed) top. The "S" (if it's indeed and "S" and not a "5"), sometimes indicates sunburst, but that would seem redundant considering the "IT" lettering for iced tea, which is a burst shade. I have also seen "S" indicating a "satin" finish.
Still not sure what a "K" might indicate ("Koa" is the only guitar-related thing that's coming to mind), or the "3" at the end. Brain teasers are fun, though. Hopefully somebody else chimes in with ideas.