btoth76 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hello Gib son! To go on with Capmaster's thoughts, due to similiar reasons (availability of raw materials) the specs constantly changed. The historical reissue is the closest You can get to an original Les Paul Standard guitar. With the V.O.S. treatment You can have some patina already applied to it. But it's by far not a perfect recreation. Let's look at few points of interest: 1) Pickups. Gibson offers a lot of pickups today, all said to be the perfect recreation of the original P.A.F. You might ask, why so many perfect reproductions? Because winding machines at that time weren't accurate, the specs for a pickup were inconsistent. So, by no means Your guitar has period-correct pickups in it. 2) Body. This is British Honduran mahogany of a vintage Les Paul: Does Your guitar looks like this? Or rather like this: This is what is called, the "genuine mahogany". Which breed exactly? Don't ask. 3) Fretboard. This is Brazilian rosewood of the previously shown 1978 high-end Gibson: Does Your bi-layered Indian rosewood looks exactly like that? Or like this: 4) Capacitors. Are those in Your R8 are real PIOs or just ceramics wrapped in Bumblebee coating? A Ford authorized replica of the Cobra is just as close to the original. Or You thought You can buy a 250.000 USD guitar for 5000 Euros? Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib son Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hello Gib son! To go on with Capmaster's thoughts, due to similiar reasons (availability of raw materials) the specs constantly changed. The historical reissue is the closest You can get to an original Les Paul Standard guitar. With the V.O.S. treatment You can have some patina already applied to it. But it's by far not a perfect recreation. Let's look at few points of interest: 1) Pickups. Gibson offers a lot of pickups today, all said to be the perfect recreation of the original P.A.F. You might ask, why so many perfect reproductions? Because winding machines at that time weren't accurate, the specs for a pickup were inconsistent. So, by no means Your guitar has period-correct pickups in it. 2) Body. This is British Honduran mahogany of a vintage Les Paul: Does Your guitar looks like this? Or rather like this: This is what is called, the "genuine mahogany". Which breed exactly? Don't ask. 3) Fretboard. This is Brazilian rosewood of the previously shown 1978 high-end Gibson: Does Your bi-layered Indian rosewood looks exactly like that? Or like this: 4) Capacitors. Are those in Your R8 are real PIOs or just ceramics wrapped in Bumblebee coating? A Ford authorized replica of the Cobra is just as close to the original. Or You thought You can buy a 250.000 USD guitar for 5000 Euros? Cheers... Bence Hello Bence, do you enjoy torturing me? Ok my bi-layered R8 does not look like any of the pictures posted by you. But, please let me say this: my guitar could also look like the "real" les paul or not at all resemble it. It could even play best of the original one or even much worse: they are all irrelevant questions. The fact remains, however, that I have come to know today -not thanks to Gibson! - that my guitar, besides not having the Brazilian rosewood, the Honduras mahogany, the right capacitors and all the things that you have carefully specified, do not even have a decent fretboard. I know that when I'm going to remove the old frets, the gluing will jump away. I know that to get rid of this guitar, selling it at a decent price, I'll have to lie to my eventual buyer saying it's not a 2012 guitar, lying to him in the same manner in which Gibson has lied to me. Is it possible that nobody can understand that the real problem is not to have a guitar faithful to the original? I understand that you have to shell out so much money to get one of these guitars! I ' d wanted only to be informed of the truth on this guitar before it was put into production. But the big companies do not care about their customers and do whatever they want with total impunity. I suspect that many people here think like me but it seems that in this forum no one has the courage to say so openly. perhaps thios is not the right place: this is the GIBSON official forum ! This is my thought and I think now it's time that this thread go over. Best regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Hello Bence, do you enjoy torturing me? Ok my bi-layered R8 does not look like any of the pictures posted by you. But, please let me say this: my guitar could also look like the "real" les paul or not at all resemble it. It could even play best of the original one or even much worse: they are all irrelevant questions. The fact remains, however, that I have come to know today -not thanks to Gibson! - that my guitar, besides not having the Brazilian rosewood, the Honduras mahogany, the right capacitors and all the things that you have carefully specified, do not even have a decent fretboard. I know that when I'm going to remove the old frets, the gluing will jump away. I know that to get rid of this guitar, selling it at a decent price, I'll have to lie to my eventual buyer saying it's not a 2012 guitar, lying to him in the same manner in which Gibson has lied to me. Is it possible that nobody can understand that the real problem is not to have a guitar faithful to the original? I understand that you have to shell out so much money to get one of these guitars! I ' d wanted only to be informed of the truth on this guitar before it was put into production. But the big companies do not care about their customers and do whatever they want with total impunity. I suspect that many people here think like me but it seems that in this forum no one has the courage to say so openly. perhaps thios is not the right place: this is the GIBSON official forum ! This is my thought and I think now it's time that this thread go over. Best regards Good grief mate. Is it possible that after all these people have told you that still don't understand that Gibson clearly published the fact that it had a laminated board? No one lied to you at Gibson. When I got my 2011 I knew about it and that was in March 2012. It WAS published. You didn't look. It IS that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib son Posted August 30, 2013 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Good grief mate. Is it possible that after all these people have told you that still don't understand that Gibson clearly published the fact that it had a laminated board? No one lied to you at Gibson. When I got my 2011 I knew about it and that was in March 2012. It WAS published. You didn't look. It IS that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongoscot Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 I now doubt the integrity of this entire thread. It is starting to ring similar to the old Fender guy troll thread. " I am a Fender guy, never really cared for Gibson, but I bought one anyway and what do ya know, it turned out to be junk". He has promised several times to go away yet still keeps coming back like a broken record. We get it dude. You like Fenders, You think Gibson are liars and build junk, and you are begging for people on a Gibson forum to agree with you. Why don't you keep your promise and go away. Sell your Gibson and go buy three Fenders with the money you get so you can live your life happily ever after, or better yet go to a Fender forum and complain about your Gibson and you will probably get a lot of sympathy, then you can talk all about quacking sounds and stroke each other off. NEENER NEENER NEENER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib son Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 I now doubt the integrity of this entire thread. It is starting to ring similar to the old Fender guy troll thread. " I am a Fender guy, never really cared for Gibson, but I bought one anyway and what do ya know, it turned out to be junk". He has promised several times to go away yet still keeps coming back like a broken record. We get it dude. You like Fenders, You think Gibson are liars and build junk, and you are begging for people on a Gibson forum to agree with you. Why don't you keep your promise and go away. Sell your Gibson and go buy three Fenders with the money you get so you can live your life happily ever after, or better yet go to a Fender forum and complain about your Gibson and you will probably get a lot of sympathy, then you can talk all about quacking sounds and stroke each other off. NEENER NEENER NEENER! First of all please do not call me "dude".I can not do the translation of this term but I'm afraid that is not a compliment..... Second, I'm sorry but, you cannot decide when I want to get out of the forum. I understand that all of you were employed by Gibson to defend positions that they even have the courage to defend and that my presence is something unacceptable.A lone voice always gives nuisance, especially when it tells the truth that you, blind ***-licker of the company, can not see. You say that selling the Fender Gibson I can buy 3 Fender ? Will already be a lot if I can buy myself a second hand mexican strat with the "piece of crap"that I find myself in hand. Be happy with your Gibson and continue to behave as servants of power as you have done up to now, by continuing to "swallow" all the lies that your employer offers you. I never tried to force followers who give me reason, but I thought at least to find a bit objective people in this forum, but I found a bunch of sheep foraging by Gibson to save its face and keep the forum clean and tidy! The next time the Gibson will build an historic model with dried s...t fretboard and you can argue that the dried s...t it' s okay because, look a bit, has been named among the "specifications"! Let revise your brain and use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Why do you feel the need to insult people who disagree with you? It's a shame. I pitty you, I really do. It must be hard going through life with an approach like yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib son Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Why do you feel the need to insult people who disagree with you? It's a shame. I pitty you, I really do. It must be hard going through life with an approach like yours. Thanks for the sermon father! I don' t need your pity. Are you perhaps a priest or a kind of guru? I will not insult anyone: I'm just trying to defend myself from your immense hypocrisy and servile attempt to pass myself off as an idiot because I tell the truth. My real handicap is the language: if I could translate correctly what I had to say, you' d have long since ceased to recite your sermons. Do you think is correct your way of approaching life stubbornly denying the truth because you have a piece of wood with a name on it and you are so drugged by the sight of "that" logo that you can not admit that your "god" has done a disgraceful thing ?Of course it is correct! Is it for this reason that you are a member of this forum, isn' t it ? Your mission is to prevent that an idiot Italian defames the giant world of guitar manufacturer ! Fortunately there are other people in the world besides me to be pissed off with Gibson because of this crap. But you and the others pretend not to see this reality and pretend to exchange the night with the morning. Think carefully at it and come down from that pedestal from which you have placed yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Thanks for the sermon father! I don' t need your pity. Are you perhaps a priest or a kind of guru? I will not insult anyone: I'm just trying to defend myself from your immense hypocrisy and servile attempt to pass myself off as an idiot because I tell the truth. My real handicap is the language: if I could translate correctly what I had to say, you' d have long since ceased to recite your sermons. Do you think is correct your way of approaching life stubbornly denying the truth because you have a piece of wood with a name on it and you are so drugged by the sight of "that" logo that you can not admit that your "god" has done a disgraceful thing ?Of course it is correct! Is it for this reason that you are a member of this forum, isn' t it ? Your mission is to prevent that an idiot Italian defames the giant world of guitar manufacturer ! Fortunately there are other people in the world besides me to be pissed off with Gibson because of this crap. But you and the others pretend not to see this reality and pretend to exchange the night with the morning. Think carefully at it and come down from that pedestal from which you have placed yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjohnson Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Here - translate this, use of laminate was apparently not a well-kept secret. Posted 19 February 2012 - 12:50 PM Too late, Fenn. I got this from Gibson CS last week. "Yes, they are using layered rosewood on the historic Reissue models." Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:25 AM Dear all, I would suggest you all to have a look at the following webpage: http://www2.gibson.c...-Tonewoods.aspx ... Kind regards, Stijn Frequently asked questions about Tone Woods Will Indian rosewood ever be used by Gibson again? Yes, and it is actually being used now. At this time, Gibson is using layered Indian rosewood fingerboard blanks, as well as layered fingerboard and bridge components. The Gibson R&D team engineered a new process that is sonically virtually indistinguishable by layering thinner pieces of Indian rosewood together with the grain of one in reverse direction of the other. Posted 26 September 2012 - 11:29 PM 2012s from around February until now have laminated fretboards. Two pieces of rosewood glued together. Google it. You will find many, many threads on this subject and how many people hate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongoscot Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Sorry dude. There is a difference between having a criticism of a product, and being a troll. You got the response you were looking for. Be a happy martyr. I have a Fender too. I love it, but if my house were on fire, once my family is safe, I try to save the Gibson and Martin. The Fender might have to burn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib son Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 vaffanculo testa di cazzo: fatti fare la traduzione stronzo borioso che non sei altro. Affogati in quell' isola del cazzo dove abiti. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib son Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Sorry dude. There is a difference between having a criticism of a product, and being a troll. You got the response you were looking for. Be a happy martyr. I have a Fender too. I love it, but if my house were on fire, once my family is safe, I try to save the Gibson and Martin. The Fender might have to burn. vaffanculo pure a te ee al tuo amico dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongoscot Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 vaffanculo pure a te ee al tuo amico dude. Dude,are you flirting with me? Sorry but I don't roll that way, not that there is anything wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib son Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Despite all the news I had received almost convinced me that my les paul had the bi -layered fretboard, I had further documented by attending other sites and forums, and so decided to attempt to the removal of the nut and I found that my guitar (which is the 112 model produced in 2012 ) still has the one piece fingerboard ! This is in accordance with what has been learned on the about same topic in several other forums where was stated that the historic first production of 2012 that still has got the " swirled "inlays, could still have the one piece fretboard. Since I 've found that my guitar has a pretty low serial (below the neck p.u I found also an hand-written date indicates that even November 2011 !) and got the "swirled" inlays too (whereas the 2012 model bears the new celluloid inlays as do in '50's ), I could verify that these statements were correct . Now I feel much more calm and not so much because I think I have a better guitar , but mostly because I came to the end of this story . But I got to end only thanks to the help and perseverance of other people on other forums that do not bother to defend at all costs a company and has fair-minded attitude, not has taken me for a fool protester as happened in this forum and led me step by step to find a solution which was fortunately positive for me . In this forum, some of you , have only heavily criticized , ridiculed, accused me of having made a purchase with lightness and to be the only culprit, even showing their joy towards my complaints ! This behavior has sparked in me an offensive reaction, which , however, I will not apologize because it was caused by the need to procure me a "legitimate defense". I just want to say this thing and now I 'm able to leave this forum with more confidence, fulfilling the demands of all that people who don' t have never understood me. Certainly I don' t thank Gibson : the forum administrators have completely ignored me, giving myself thrown to their most fervent defenders. This does not honor Gibson' s reputation. If would be true, as stated by the CEO in his well-known interview on the web , that the bi -layered fretboard was a " big step forward in modern methods of construction, " I wonder why Gibson in 2013 did not continue on this road but , on the contrary , it is immediately returned to the traditional fretboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Bye! By the way. No one defended Gibson in making the bilayered boards. Whether or not that is a problem is arguable. All we said was that Gibson didn't hide it, which is fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Hello Gib son! What I was trying to say is, that the bi-layered fretboard is the least important detail You should worry about when it comes authenticity of a reissue. Glad, that You've found out it's a solid piece! I am just a bit bitter, that Your reaction to the support was so harsh. Noone meant to offend You, rather to inform You. Enjoy Your R8 with good health! Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib son Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Hello Gib son! What I was trying to say is, that the bi-layered fretboard is the least important detail You should worry about when it comes authenticity of a reissue. Glad, that You've found out it's a solid piece! I am just a bit bitter, that Your reaction to the support was so harsh. Noone meant to offend You, rather to inform You. Enjoy Your R8 with good health! Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl51 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Glad you are happy now Gib son! I do have to say that you should write press briefings for our politicians here in the USA as your writings makes more sense after listening to John Kerry being interviewed by Chris Wallace on Fox yesterday......jim in Maine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Glad you are happy now Gib son! I do have to say that you should write press briefings for our politicians here in the USA as your writings makes more sense after listening to John Kerry being interviewed by Chris Wallace on Fox yesterday......jim in Maine Damn - don't you think he could be of help for Silvio Berlusconi when it goes around scaring off young girls??!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Damn - don't you think he could be of help for Silvio Berlusconi when it goes around scaring off young girls??!? Lol! I guess the young girls will be safe for a couple of years now, unlike poor old Silvio. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Lol! I guess the young girls will be safe for a couple of years now, unlike poor old Silvio. Cheers... Bence Do you believe that Silvio will be after young girls again in a couple of years - if withdrawal symptoms are strong enough perhaps? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib son Posted September 2, 2013 Author Share Posted September 2, 2013 Do you believe that Silvio will be after young girls again in a couple of years - if withdrawal symptoms are strong enough perhaps? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brez9091 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 To our Italian friend. Welcome. Please stay. I had the same wuesyions sbout these laminate boards. Until i played my VOS 59 ES-330. I bought it......and 2 more. This guitar is so freaking good, i don't care if i find out the board is made out of a stale Spukkie sandwich. (Italian Sub) Let's say you went out on a date with Lindsay Lohan, rock and rolled her all night , having the time of your life. Would you then wirry and fret, because you knew that inside her beautiful body was hidden an enlarged liver? Get my point? Enjoy that beautiful guitar my friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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