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1964 Gibson LG0 repair and modification questions


Handmedownguitars

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Posted

Hello everyone, I am new to the guitar forums as a member, but have read dozens of posts over the past few years. I chose my username based on the fact that I am the only "kid" in my generation on both sides of my family that learned to play guitar and so grandpa and uncle instruments are being handed down. Applause to Martin and everything else in between, so I really am starting to appreciate the different "voices" of different guitars. Fifteen years ago I would have told you they all sound the same.

 

My questions today relate to a 1964 Gibson LG0 and I thought I would ask here at the Gibson forum to keep the "you should have bought this brand" comments from taking over the thread. What I would really like is for those of you who own or have owned an LG0 and have tried repairs to chime in.

 

Last week for my birthday, I decided that buying a guitar that is older than me might make me feel younger. I don't know that it helped, but I do like the guitar. It is all original in the original case, except for one bridge pin that was replaced in 1995. It even came with some vintage Gibson guitar polish which looks like the guitar has had used on it, because it looks almost new. I would rate it around a 9 on a 10 point scale, but there are things I am wondering about to spruce it up. So here are some topic questions:

 

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1) I guess first is the bridge. It is the plastic one that almost everyone seems to loathe, but unlike most it is in pristine condition. I guess you could say it is lifting a little, but it is a very little (as in you can't shove a thin pick under the front edge without effort). Should I try to tighten the bolts underneath or will that cause tension problems?

 

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2) Another option is to replace the bridge ( from what I have read most people do not believe that this hurts the value of the ones that originally came with a plastic bridge), and if that is the route I choose, do any of you have experience with that and know of a good replacement bridge that would be and easy switch?

 

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3) I straightened the neck slowly this past week ( the truss rod had never been touched before, but they left the guitar strung in tune for several years) but the action is still high on the upper frets. Would a rosewood bridge replacement reduce the bellying that appears to be causing what is left of the unwanted action height?

 

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4) The Pick-guard is bowed up in the middle a little. I have read many peoples opinions like "the oven on low heat", the "hair dryer method", and the "put every book in the house on top of it method" being recommended. Have any of you tried any of these or other methods with success with an LG0 pick-guard. I don't want to mess that up.

 

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5) Amplification? This guitar, as stated before, is in great original condition. Is it worth it to put in something like a K K mini pickup or would I harm the value of the guitar with this modification?

 

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6) The case is in really good condition. The only problem is the storage flap on the inside was torn off years ago ( I will include pics) and I wondered if anyone had ever tried to reattach these? This of course is only for preserving it. I also want to know if any on you have found a quality hardshell case to keep your LG0 safe for taking on the road?

 

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I realize that is a lot of questions. Weigh in where you feel knowledgable and I am happy to provide more info if there is something I missed. Thanks in advance for the wisdom.

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Posted

Welcome to the world of Gibsons.

 

Lots of questions my friend.

 

First and it is a biggie you should take the guitar to a good repair guy and get his evaluation. If the action is unreasonably high you need to know why. It may be able to be corrected by doing something as simple getting a proper setup. It could also require a neck reset. Messing with the truss rod when you do not know what a truss rod does or what you are doing with it can cause damage.

 

The bridge - it has nothing to do with condition but how well the bridge transmits vibration to the top. The plastic bridges are about as bad as it gets. Personally I would replace it no matter how pristine it is. I would also go ahead and have the bridge plate looked at.

 

The case - not a major concern. I can't tell you how many of those little storage compartments I have repaired just for grins but in all honesty they really are not worth the effort as if you intend to keep the guitar you will want a hardshell case anyway. Cases for that guitar are easy to dig up - I think it is Sweetwater that has a case finder. Something like a Guardian or TKL case can be easily found and will not empty your wallet (cases can get pretty expensive).

 

Adding electronics - if you need them go for it. If you are a bedroom player than what would be the purpose of paying for something you will more than likely not be using.

 

Anyway, I cannot stress it enough that if you do not know what you are doing don't do it. Take the guitar to a qualified repair shop.

 

God Luck and let us know how it all works out for you.

Posted

Replacing a bridge is unfortunately rarely as simple as buying a replacement, but if you can find a good luthier he should be able to make a Rosewood replacement for it from scratch without spending a fortune. I've never owned a Gibson with the plastic bridge so I can't offer a great deal of input into them.

 

Ladder braced guitars often end up with a bit of a belly, in particular a bit of a kink in the soundboard at bridge level - and there's little that can be done to flatten them. The bracing structure just doesn't support the bridge as well as an X brace. It's not a great deal to worry about though, and again, a good luthier will be able to assess what needs doing to get it playing at its best, but a neck set may well be on the cards.

 

A K&K would be ideal for this guitar if you need to amplify it. There's a version that can be fitted without modification, using a mini jack in a vintage style endpin, but I personally wouldn't feel bad about fitting a standard endpin jack. LG0s tend to be popular as a player's vintage guitar rather than a prime collector's piece, so the difference in value between one with a pickup fitted and one left original is going to be pretty negligable.

 

So, broadly, first stop needs to be a trip to the repairer to get an in hand assessment!

Posted

Ladder braced guitars often end up with a bit of a belly, in particular a bit of a kink in the soundboard at bridge level - and there's little that can be done to flatten them. The bracing structure just doesn't support the bridge as well as an X brace.

 

Bellying is normal in all guitars. I think it was Norman Blake who once said, never trust a guitar without a belly. But it is not something ladder braced guitars are more prone to. And there is a lot that can be done to flatten a buckled top. Even the worst case of bellying is far from an un-repairable.

Posted

Bellying is normal in all guitars, yes, but there's a specific type of kink or twist in the soundboard leaving the rear of the bridge higher than the front that I have only seen on ladder braced guitars that have no longitudinal support in the bridge area. The belly I associate with X braced guitars is a more uniform arch across the lower bout. I've come across it a lot in Kalamazoo guitars from the 30s, often in more cheaply made early steel strings and less so in LG models - a majority of which seem to have a healthy uniform arch but I've handled more than one that had the kink in the top.

 

I've discussed whether to attempt correcting this in Kalamazoos with repairers far more experienced than I and the attitude has always been that it's not something that can economically be corrected, and that setting the neck to the existing bridge position is the best course of action. This is specifically regarding addressing the kink, not a uniform arch.

Posted

Sounds like what you are talking about is not bellying but the tendency with ladder braced guitars for the bridge to rotate creating a roller coaster top. In 55+ years I have yet to encounter this though. The only real problem with ladder braced guitars I have run into is with the lighter braced instruments like the Schmidts which only had three instead of the more typical four lateral braces and no bracing around the soundhole. This gives the guitars a tendency to buckle around the soundhole. As a matter of routine my repair guy adds some popsickle bracing to these guitars when he flattened the top back out so the problem will not recur down the road. The Gibson LG-0 and most others though are built heavier than the Schmidts were.

Posted

Yes that's it. I've seen it quite a few times - I can specifically remember a guitar of identical spec to the OP's guitar that had one of the worst kinks I've seen, which came to mind when I wrote my original post, but I can think of at least half a dozen examples I've examined first hand in the last ten years, mostly pre-WW2 instruments. Both LGs I've owned - a mid 50s LG1 and a '68 LG0 had healthy, normal looking tops without the kink.

Posted

I have a 1965 Epiphone FT Caballeto in my collection since the early 70's. As you are a newcomer to the forum, it is the Epiphone version of the Gibson LGO made in the same Kalamazoo factory. I left my pristine plastic bridge on as long as it stayed in good condition. Then one day it just cracked and a piece broke off. That was about 15 years later. It was only then that I had a replacement bridge from an experienced repair person put on. The hotbox was gone for about 3 weeks in repair. He did a great job and I didn't have to worry it was replaced because as is known most end up replaced and is known to not decreas the value like most original equipment replacement does in the vintage market. Did it improve the sound or action? The sound, maybe, but the thing is with small bodied guitars the sound is still a small bodied guitar sound and not a full spectrum of sound like a jumbo or dreadnought. The action remained the same...more subject to the saddle height and not the bridge height(provided the appropriate bridge is used. Do I feel I did best by waiting for the plastic bridge to break before I replaced it? Yes. It sounded good with the plastic bridge and was cool to still have the original plastic bridge on it when so few others did. The replacement bridge didn't make it really that much different, it still sounds the same except for some minor nuance. It still sounds like a mahogany guitar, which is its domineering sound quality. Occasionally at a guitar show I still find an original plastic bridge on a LG0 or Caballero and try plsying 'me, but never notice any significant difference to my Caballero with the replacement bridge now on it for decades.

 

I suggest to wait til it breaks until you replace it. I do think if you over tighten the bolt screws it will cause the bridge to crack. Unlike wood, plastic does not have a high tolerance to too much pressure.on it, just cause it's not like its space age strong plastic (its just basic plastic), plus its gotta be a bit brittle simply from age.

 

 

Just my experience.

 

Jazzman Jeff aka QM

Posted

I suggest to wait til it breaks until you replace it. I do think if you over tighten the bolt screws it will cause the bridge to crack.

I am in agreement with Jeff on this. Having owned three guitars with the plastic bridge (including a still fully intact '66 Epi Cortez), my position is that if you currently like the tone and the instrument is structurally sound, leave it alone. A slight lift as you describe behind the pins in the center is typical, as the center bridge screw is actually in front of the pins. Be sure the ball ends of your strings are properly seated on the bridgeplate to keep pressure off the bridge & spruce top, as it is the job of the bridgeplate to absorb and distribute string tension.

 

If there are structural reasons to replace the bridge, then it is certainly wise to do so, and vintage value will not be effected. On a '65 Gibson B-25, I ended up replacing the plastic bridge with ebony in order to stabilize structural damage. However, expecting a noticeable improvement in tone, what I actually got was a slight decrease in bass response, and otherwise virtually no change. So you never know what you'll get, despite generalized common wisdoms.

 

Interestingly, your bridge does not have the adjustable saddle or associated hardware, and from the underside shot of the bridgeplate, everything appears to be original.

Posted

 

Interestingly, your bridge does not have the adjustable saddle or associated hardware, and from the underside shot of the bridgeplate, everything appears to be original.

 

 

Seems most of the plastic bridges I have seen on guitars made around 1963-1964 do not have the ADJ saddle. Also looks to have the spruce bridge plate which shows up on lower end Gibsons. This is where you have to be careful as the soft spruce bridge plate combined with the hollow plastic bridge is what causes the top to rotate and the hump we have been talking about to show up behind the bridge. It is far more likely to happen with this setup than in a ladder braced guitar with a solid wood bridge and maple bridgeplate.

Posted

Thanks for chiming in.I stopped by the local music shop on the way home today and handed the guitar over for a set up. He will dress the frets, straighten the neck, and adjust the saddle. Should get it back in a week. Think I will leave bridge until the plastic one dies. 3 more questions for everyone concerning the lg0:

 

1) string recommendations?

2) hardshell case recommendations?

3)does anyone know where I might get one 60's vintage Gibson Bridge pin? That is all his thing lacks in being 100 percent original.

  • 1 month later...
Posted

Got is back. The good news is I didn't kill the guy. He did straighten the neck beauifully, but he lowered the saddle so much to make it easy playing that the strings almost sit on the bridge. I put Martin silk and steels on her and she sounds good, I just think the volume would be better with more saddle heighth. Found a good used hardshell for $40 and now she is ready to travel. Thanks for the input guys.

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