"Most disappointing guitar" thread over on AGF

[E-minor7]

1 hour ago, Raul Rehlmann said:

Lighten up, François.

It is possible to read the forum for information and not for reason to be defensive. This case is one where a person interested in guitar tone of any maker asks one other person who says he is a collector of sounds why no J200 guitars.

Oh no fuzz, , , see what you mean, but also know the sergeant's 'tone' or mind-tuning and to my knowledge he and I are okay.  

But yes, my angle was that tpbiii's collection seems to be built around the classics and therefor at least contains one of each legend (more or less).                                                                                                    Just hit me that we never see the king of them all in the appreciated group-photos. Then thought hearing why probably would interest others than me. 

[tpbiii]

2 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

Oh no fuzz, , , see what you mean, but also know the sergeant's 'tone' or mind-tuning and to my knowledge he and I are okay.  

But yes, my angle was that tpbiii's collection seems to be built around the classics and therefor at least contains one of each legend (more or less).                                                                                                    Just hit me that we never see the king of them all in the appreciated group-photos. Then thought hearing why probably would interest others than me. 

As you know, I am not very secretive about this stuff.  You are right -- we were never after J-200s.

It is true we collected original sounds and only one each if each iconic model, but a guitar model/year needed another reason to be on our desirable list.  It had to be of historic importance for the (mostly acoustic traditional) genres we loved and also try to participate in personally.  So for example our vocal properties were part of the mix -- which meant there were just some things we could not do.  As far as J-200s were concerned they were truly iconic for sure -- although the shift to maple did change the guitars greatly.  They were a major driver of the country music scene in the 50s and 60s, and they seemed to work really well for singers with big voices -- a big voice and a J-200 could fill a room acoustically.  Well we did not the have the voices for that.  Also their broad powerful unfocused sound never got any purchase in bluegrass -- the all acoustic branch of country.

Also maple was always problematic for us.  State simply, maple does not cut well in complex (acoustic band) environments.  That fact catches a lot of people by surprise, because played solo it sounds like it would cut great -- but they get buried.  As an acoustic scientist, I know why that happens -- but if you have the guitars and environments, it is not hard to observe.  We actually have several maple Gibsons -- two 30s L-Centuries and a 65 Dove.  We loved them for our folk revival selves, but even there their lack of lead cut meant they seldom got used for anything but rhythm.

It is not that we did not have anything in that category.  Like woof, we were also drawn to blue collar guitars.  That was historically what powered my early family music.  We bought this at a garage sale in Nova Scotia 15+ years ago for $25C.  We just kept it around for a long time, but then were had Nova Scotia luthier Russell Crosby bring it back to life.  No cosmetic changes -- I just left the bad pickguard.

Often called the poor man's J-200, this solid top monster behaves generally like a mahogany J-200.  We use to take it weekly to a farmer's market where we ran a jam session in the summer.  We would loan it out to play in the jam sometimes, but when we were alone (which happened occasionally) we would just use it to do vocal duets with bass and no finger or flat pick lead -- Just campfire music.  We got lots of complements, but even though we sought to be loud in our bluegrass vocals, you had to be careful to not let this guitar take over.

I don't seem to have any videos -- which is a bit odd.

Best,

-Tom

[E-minor7]

46 minutes ago, tpbiii said:

As you know, I am not very secretive about this stuff.  You are right -- we were never after J-200s.

It is true we collected original sounds and only one each if each iconic model, but a guitar model/year needed another reason to be on our desirable list.  It had to be of historic importance for the (mostly acoustic traditional) genres we loved and also try to participate in personally.  So for example our vocal properties were part of the mix -- which meant there were just some things we could not do.  As far as J-200s were concerned they were truly iconic for sure -- although the shift to maple did change the guitars greatly.  They were a major driver of the country music scene in the 50s and 60s, and they seemed to work really well for singers with big voices -- a big voice and a J-200 could fill a room acoustically.  Well we did not the have the voices for that.  Also their broad powerful unfocused sound never got any purchase in bluegrass -- the all acoustic branch of country.

Also maple was always problematic for us.  State simply, maple does not cut well in complex (acoustic band) environments.  That fact catches a lot of people by surprise, because played solo it sounds like it would cut great -- but they get buried.  As an acoustic scientist, I know why that happens -- but if you have the guitars and environments, it is not hard to observe.  We actually have several maple Gibsons -- two 30s L-Centuries and a 65 Dove.  We loved them for our folk revival selves, but even there their lack of lead cut meant they seldom got used for anything but rhythm.

It is not that we did not have anything in that category.  Like woof, we were also drawn to blue collar guitars.  That was historically what powered my early family music.  We bought this at a garage sale in Nova Scotia 15+ years ago for $25C.  We just kept it around for a long time, but then were had Nova Scotia luthier Russell Crosby bring it back to life.  No cosmetic changes -- I just left the bad pickguard.

Often called the poor man's J-200, this solid top monster behaves generally like a mahogany J-200.  We use to take it weekly to a farmer's market where we ran a jam session in the summer.  We would loan it out to play in the jam sometimes, but when we were alone (which happened occasionally) we would just use it to do vocal duets with bass and no finger or flat pick lead -- Just campfire music.  We got lots of complements, but even though we sought to be loud in our bluegrass vocals, you had to be careful to not let this guitar take over.

I don't seem to have any videos -- which is a bit odd.

Best,

-Tom

A highly interesting answer, thanx.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            I had the feeling some sort of concept laid a frame for the collection, but didn't foresee the reasons you mention for skipping the 200. The big Jumbo is after all a giga creature to leave out.        It must have been a topic for dinner-dialogues over the years.  But yes, sometimes 'the exception' gives the rest an subtle aura of exceptionality. 

The poor man's version, which looks like it had a new guard, is actually pretty cool. We can see it's been out there doin' it.