tight vs. wide woodgrain

[egoidealmusic]

So as I was just giving the new 45 a little loving polishing after a hard banging,  I was looking at the spruce top (which is really gorgeious).  While I assume most tops have fluctuation in the grain (sometimes tighter, sometimes wider depending on the weather, etc. the tree goes through) is there a difference in sound between tops that have more tight vs, wide woodgrain?  Is that pure aesthetics, or is there a difference in tonality?  I'd thing that tighter would mean denser, but that's based on absolutley nothing.  When folks look for prime cuts of wood, is one preferable to the other?

 

Also, and unrelated to that question, I have to say I've been amazed hearing this guitar open up over the weekend of some pretty heavy playing.  I swear I could hear moments when the secondary tones (or whatever you'd call them) really started to bloom, and I'd also swear that I can hear her getting either louder or more pronounced.   Absolutely in love with this one.  Still just waiting for her to tell me her name.

 

 

[E-minor7]

Good topic - I actually brought it up last year. Heha, , , look forward to read that thread again - remember it as informative. 

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by E-minor7

[E-minor7]

17 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

Good topic - I actually brought it up last year. Heha, , , look forward to read that thread again - remember it as informative. 

 

What a king size thread - I sit here 19 months later proud of it 🥰😂 But as concluded already back then : No real rule.

[egoidealmusic]

sorry I didn't search that first!  That is a great discussion.

[E-minor7]

3 minutes ago, egoidealmusic said:

sorry I didn't search that first!  That is a great discussion.

Yes it is - and there is a third thread within mine. Good opportunity to revive the wisdom and conclusions there. Almost all central members chime in.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               And as said - they don't reach consensus.

[egoidealmusic]

Haha I'm not sure I've seen much consensus on these threads which is what I love about reading them.  In looking at the older threads there does seem to one things that some folks agree on which is a wider grain produces more low end while a tighter grain produces more high end.  Which is interesting to me as the first 45 I got was a tighter grain which had more high end than the replacement which is mostly wider.  I've got a low (and not that wide range of) voice so the lower end works better for me, which may be why this new 45 sounds better to me than the old one.  But this one also seems to have more harmonics (not sure if that's the right word) where is bassier but also chimes more, almost like a subtle 12 string effect (I'm overstating obviously but don't know how better to explain it).  In one of the older threads they mentioned that Gibson used pretty much whatever they could find during WWII which is why there's such a wild range of what older Gibsons sound like--I've heard some that are boomy and bassy and some that are more delicate and high end soudning.  Of course much of that is in the play and care of them, but I just think it's fascinating.  The two 45s I've had in a pretty short timeframe both sound like 45s but also sound very different.  Thankfully, replacement is much to my preference!

[E-minor7]

Haha I'm not sure I've seen much consensus on these threads which is what I love about reading them. 

You are right - it's a mess out there, ,  🤩

In looking at the older threads there does seem to one things that some folks agree on which is a wider grain produces more low end while a tighter grain produces more high end. 

This is something to be aware of in the future. . 

  Of course much of that is in the play and care of them, but I just think it's fascinating. 

Yes, and it makes meeting any new or vintage sibling hyper intriguing - what will it offer ?

The two 45s I've had in a pretty short timeframe both sound like 45s but also sound very different.  Thankfully, replacement is much to my preference!

Lucky you - the other way around had been quite hard to bear, impossible to forget. .  

[zombywoof]

This is getting perilously close to having drunk to to deep from the Tone Wood Kool Aid.  Personally I do not give a fig about the grain other than aesthetics..  I keep going back to the fact that one of the book matched top pieces on my 1942 J50 was accidentally flip flopped giving it an absolutely crazy looking grain.  Yet I have never played a J45/50  I have liked the sound of better.  What does matter in giving a guitar its voice is  how a top is thicknessed and how it is braced.  If I had to come up with a reason why one Bozeman J45 sounds different than another I would assume it has to do with the final hand sanding resulting in say the bracing and taper in one guitar being slightly more radical than in the next one.  But if you think about the one characteristic  you find in good violins is that the grain is tight in the center and then widens out as it goes toward the edges.  

Edited August 23, 2021 by zombywoof

[bobouz]

As ZWF touches on, conventional wisdom has long been that the supposed ideal is tight grain in the center, getting wider as it moves towards the outer edges of the guitar.  In practical terms, I’ve had just the opposite occur & everything in between on some fine sounding guitars.  It all comes down to the individual piece.

But visually, I like wider grain a lot!

[Guth]

The relative spacing of the grain in a guitar top is really important — to the looks of the guitar (if you care about that sort of thing that is). Play enough guitars and you'll find that any theories involving such things can be proven both true and false. In other words, it all comes down to the individual guitar. A good sounding guitar is a good sounding guitar, regardless of any number of things that people tend to fixate on. At least that's been my experience.

[E-minor7]

12 hours ago, Guth said:

The relative spacing of the grain in a guitar top is really important — to the looks of the guitar (if you care about that sort of thing that is). Play enough guitars and you'll find that any theories involving such things can be proven both true and false. In other words, it all comes down to the individual guitar. A good sounding guitar is a good sounding guitar, regardless of any number of things that people tend to fixate on. At least that's been my experience.

I think this comment seals what has been sketched already. And of course explains why PRE*WAR had no trouble giving Molly T a seriously wide grained hog dread.