Question about my vintage Gibson L4

[Erwin vtL]

Hi all,

My Gibson L4 is coded X7935. I understand that this means it was produced in 1954 in Kalamazoo. There is also a number stamp inside the chest of the guitar: 1120. Do you know what this refers to?

As my daughter is doing a research assignment for History in secondary school, I would appreciate any additional info or sources for this line of guitars and especially this specific specimen.

Thanks a million!

Erwin

[ksdaddy]

Sorry, but this is not an L-4. it's not even a Gibson. It's likely made by Kay or Harmony in Chicago in the 40s or 50s.

[Erwin vtL]

57 minutes ago, ksdaddy said:

Sorry, but this is not an L-4. it's not even a Gibson. It's likely made by Kay or Harmony in Chicago in the 40s or 50s.

Thank you! That is useful (though disappointing) information. Do you have any suggestions for where I can go to find out more about this guitar?

[slimt]

First thing that came to  mind was the plaque shadow.   Regal had the same design.  
As KS said kay, Harmony . 

[Erwin vtL]

16 minutes ago, slimt said:

First thing that came to  mind was the plaque shadow.   Regal had the same design.  
As KS said kay, Harmony . 

Googling for plaque shapes, National seems to come close. I only find oval plaques for Regal. Thanks for putting me on that trail!

[zombywoof]

Harmony purchased the Regal name in 1955.

The problem is I cannot correlate either of the numbers appearing in that guitar with anything made by Harmony or Kay.  The again, both builders supplied hundreds upon hundreds of music shops, mail order catalogs, department stores and such with instruments all bearing different monikers on the headstock and model numbers.  

If the guitar was bult by Kay or Harmony (which I am not ready to go on record as saying) as far as sources go, the Harmony Guitar Database has disappeared after the death of the guy who put it together and maintained it.  I have run across nothing which provides near as much detail.

With regard to Kay, guitars Michael Wright has included as really good section on them in one of the volumes of his Cool Guitars" books. 

This site has some useful general info which might help:  Identifying and Dating Kay Guitars - S. Nathaniel Adams (snathanieladams.com)

This site might be helpful as it includes a whole bunch of old Kay catalogs:  Kay Vintage Reissue - Kool Kay Klassics!

 

[Erwin vtL]

Thank you for your help. I believe I have a positive identification now. The logo plate or sticker that is missing has the shape of those used by National. Following that trail, I found several lookalikes. They point towards the National New Yorker Spanish 1120 natural, originally electric, from 1952 according to the serial number.

Thanks again!

Erwin

Edited November 25, 2022 by Erwin vtL

[zombywoof]

I should have remembered based on my Supro Lap Steel that Valco/National used an "X" prefix serial number in the 1950s.  By the way, Gibson did provide National (which were distributed by Gibson's parent company CMI) with wood bodies from the late-1940s through the 1950s.    While I am not a wizard when it comes to the National archtops your guitar might sport a Gibson L50 body.

[Erwin vtL]

1 hour ago, zombywoof said:

I should have remembered based on my Supro Lap Steel that Valco/National used an "X" prefix serial number in the 1950s.  By the way, Gibson did provide National (which were distributed by Gibson's parent company CMI) with wood bodies from the late-1940s through the 1950s.    While I am not a wizard when it comes to the National archtops your guitar might sport a Gibson L50 body.

Thanks!

[zombywoof]

At least when it comes to flattops National built no wood bodies.   So, those for models such as the El Trovador were originally furnished by Kay.  After learning that Kay was also supplying bodies to the competing Shireson Bros.  National cancelled the contract and went with Harmony.  In 1947 National came out with the Model 1155 and 1160.  Initially both  were made with both Gibson bodies and necks (lacking truss rods) but around 1949 National came out with their "Stylist" neck which they started using.   By 1960 though National began going with Kay to supply bodies.

While I cannot say for certain that National built no bodies for archtops or that they were not supplied by Kays and others, I have run across at least two National archtop models which sported Gibson bodies.

[Erwin vtL]

4 hours ago, zombywoof said:

At least when it comes to flattops National built no wood bodies.   So, those for models such as the El Trovador were originally furnished by Kay.  After learning that Kay was also supplying bodies to the competing Shireson Bros.  National cancelled the contract and went with Harmony.  In 1947 National came out with the Model 1155 and 1160.  Initially both  were made with both Gibson bodies and necks (lacking truss rods) but around 1949 National came out with their "Stylist" neck which they started using.   By 1960 though National began going with Kay to supply bodies.

While I cannot say for certain that National built no bodies for archtops or that they were not supplied by Kays and others, I have run across at least two National archtop models which sported Gibson bodies.

Very interesting! You obviously know a lot about this…