Saying Goodbye to a piece of my early youth, a '75 SG

[John Shiflet]

Alright, here goes something:

Eureka, it worked! Now a restorer's question: I remember they used to sell vinyl burn in kits for repairing car dashes. Would it be possible to buy anything to patch damaged spots on the vinyl coverings? I was testing my F-der Concert Reverb today for the first time and it's delivers! Took some knob turning to finally get sound. It also has far more hum than I'm used to but I'm not sure if that is a ground loop power supply issue or is normal for that model. I did plug it in to a power strip. It's not hard to drown out the hum by cranking up sound levels but my solid state modeling amp is totally quiet. Maybe there are electronic tricks to filter out the noise before it reaches the speakers. I'm just one of those very inquisitive types.  As a kid I used to take things apart and usually I could put them back together again.

 

[PrairieDog]

Cool! I have no clue, but just suggesting you might want to make this a new post to get fresh eyes on it.  There is a also a Gibson amp forum and a repair forum that might be able to point you  in the right directions.  Folks will chatter about other gear frequently.  

[John Shiflet]

11 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

Cool! I have no clue, but just suggesting you might want to make this a new post to get fresh eyes on it.  There is a also a Gibson amp forum and a repair forum that might be able to point you  in the right directions.  Folks will chatter about other gear frequently.  

Thanks PrairieDog. I always feel like I'm on thin ice mentioning other brands on a brand dedicated site, but I think the good folks at Gibson realize not everyone can be brand exclusive in their musical equipment choices but, of course,  Yamaha would like to have you think so,  There's certainly a place for Gibson in every discussion as I consider this plucky Industrial Age survivor a National Treasure. I suppose you could call me a true believer, but I do allow that other brands may have a role to fill in an artist's quest for musical excellence.

As for the "grungy" amp, I have a "Mama" Amp from the same brand in a 2x 12" speaker configuration and of the modeling Amp variety so this small one would be the sit out on the porch in the Summer type amp and I look forward to seeing what kinds of sounds I can get out of it. I'll later share a present, ready to be reassembled photo, and last, a ready to play photo. (you know, just before the Amp catches fire and blows up) One tiny detail I'm working on is on a knob that has a tiny sliver of white metal that goes in a groove to mark the knob's position. Somehow, during toothbrush scrubbing with simple green, the sliver fell out and promptly disappeared into the carpet or ??? So, I have some white sheet plastic (actually x-ray film dividers courtesy of my late wife) of exactly the right thickness so I'm trying to carve off a suitable tiny piece and glue it into place so that nothing will be missing. Impossible to find replacement knobs. Yeah, it's the perfectionist thing... (but not OCD!)

[PrairieDog]

35 minutes ago, John Shiflet said:

Thanks PrairieDog. I always feel like I'm on thin ice mentioning other brands on a brand dedicated site, but I think the good folks at Gibson realize not everyone can be brand exclusive in their musical equipment choices but, of course,  Yamaha would like to have you think so,  There's certainly a place for Gibson in every discussion as I consider this plucky Industrial Age survivor a National Treasure. I suppose you could call me a true believer, but I do allow that other brands may have a role to fill in an artist's quest for musical excellence.

 

Chuckle, yeah they understand, well to a point. Apparently Taylor is a bit of a target for some, although there are other folks who try to be politic, chuckle.  (We have several) 

As a fairly new member here too, the only time I really stepped in it was when I did a NGD for a beautiful, top of the line, used Taylor 12-fret we picked up.  (Folks here know I am in the middle of a bad case of GAS trying to make up for the lost past 50 years, so NGDs seem to be a monthly occurrence for me 🙄)

Anyway, I  thought I would at least be humored on this one, because I included a pic of my Gibson DIF next to it as a “posting tax.”  I joked the music room was getting a bit “glittery.”  

So I watched as 38 people stopped by the post over the day and got nothing.  Not a single like,  no tepid “nice” comment,  not even ribbing from the usual suspects about it being a Taylor😆  I assessed I crossed a line and sheepishly took the post down  😅

But seriously, everybody understands folks have different gear.  The mods really only care about folks riling up trouble/breaking the posting rules, and even then it takes a lot.  

Welcome and have fun!

Edited April 19 by PrairieDog

[John Shiflet]

2 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

Chuckle, yeah they understand, well to a point. Apparently Taylor is a bit of a target for some, although there are other folks who try to be politic, chuckle.  (We have several) 

As a fairly new member here too, the only time I really stepped in it was when I did a NGD for a beautiful, top of the line, used Taylor 12-fret we picked up.  (Folks here know I am in the middle of a bad case of GAS trying to make up for the lost past 50 years, so NGDs seem to be a monthly occurrence for me 🙄)

Anyway, I  thought I would at least be humored on this one, because I included a pic of my Gibson DIF next to it as a “posting tax.”  I joked the music room was getting a bit “glittery.”  

So I watched as 38 people stopped by the post over the day and got nothing.  Not a single like,  no tepid “nice” comment,  not even ribbing from the usual suspects about it being a Taylor😆  I assessed I crossed a line and sheepishly took the post down  😅

But seriously, everybody understands folks have different gear.  The mods really only care about folks riling up trouble/breaking the posting rules, and even then it takes a lot.  

Welcome and have fun!

Well thanks. I think it's a sign of the times that many folks past 50 are returning to their youthful passions of guitars and music. I will skirt around the brand issue by saying I recently acquired an acoustic-electric from the brand you mentioned. Hand's down, it's one of the nicest acoustics I've ever played and most expensive too. I wouldn't rule out a Gibson acoustic in the future as each guitar has its own unique sound.

I can relate to the "shunning" thing- for two consecutive weeks lately, I took out local newspapers ads asking for other interested players to jam with. Not a single phone call so I;m trying to come up with a plan B.  Guess I shouldn't have put "Older Rock guitarist" in the ad but I didn't want a bunch of high school kids calling me about joining a band.  The search continues.

[PrairieDog]

2 hours ago, John Shiflet said:

Well thanks. I think it's a sign of the times that many folks past 50 are returning to their youthful passions of guitars and music. I will skirt around the brand issue by saying I recently acquired an acoustic-electric from the brand you mentioned. Hand's down, it's one of the nicest acoustics I've ever played and most expensive too. I wouldn't rule out a Gibson acoustic in the future as each guitar has its own unique sound.

I can relate to the "shunning" thing- for two consecutive weeks lately, I took out local newspapers ads asking for other interested players to jam with. Not a single phone call so I;m trying to come up with a plan B.  Guess I shouldn't have put "Older Rock guitarist" in the ad but I didn't want a bunch of high school kids calling me about joining a band.  The search continues.

Ooh, what did you get?  TBH, I never thought I would embrace a Taylor. The usual brightness they are known for hits my ears all wrong.

But my better half never had an instrument, and one day last year declared she wanted to learn guitar.  I was ecstatic.  I sang and played several instruments way back in the last century and always loved music.  I had a bit of a chance, but was more interested in being stupid. I put it all aside and went on with what I thought was a life.  

Anyway, we hiked down to GC and she tried every cheap import acoustic guitar in the room, insisting she didn’t deserve a “good” guitar yet.  I knew you often learn better on a quality instrument because they can be easier to play and you aren’t fighting shortcuts. So I finally was able to steer her towards the American made models.  

Still price conscious, she saw a Taylor Urban Ash GT  on clearance.  I inwardly cringed when she started to pick it up, but gamely covered my trepidation.  I was committed to making sure she got whatever she wanted, as long as it was a decent instrument. I braced myself, saying if this what it takes…  

It had a surprisingly well-rounded rich sound.  None of the Taylor “twang” but still nice trebles.  So it came home, along with an unintended, new Gibson J45 Walnut Studio for me 😀

I was clueless when I was a kid.  My guitar was a cheapie Yamaha classical, picked up at the local school band supply shop. Otherwise I borrowed nice electrics from friends. Even later on, I tended to lump brands into uniform, general sounds:  Gibsons= full and rich, guitary, Martins=muddy and dark, Taylors=shrill.  

Now that I’ve learned more about tone woods and builds in acoustics all bets are off, and Taylors are welcome at our party.  She has several. In fact, one of my favorite guitars, right up there with the DIF, is a Sinker Redwood/EIR Taylor 714ce NAMM special.  Unbelievable warm, liquid pure sound pours out of that thing. 

Now we have all kinds, several versions of acoustics, resonators, and even a few banjos.   And we just broke the envelope on electric a couple weeks ago, with a Gibson Lucille hollow body, followed immediately up with a Canadian Godin 5th Ave King Pin that dropped right after we picked up the Lucille.  Yes, we have bad GAS.     

Still can’t warm to a Martin, though.  yet to find one I can “hear” with my old metal bashed ears. 😆

 

 

Edited April 19 by PrairieDog

[Dub-T-123]

5 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

Chuckle, yeah they understand, well to a point. Apparently Taylor is a bit of a target for some, although there are other folks who try to be politic, chuckle.  (We have several) 

As a fairly new member here too, the only time I really stepped in it was when I did a NGD for a beautiful, top of the line, used Taylor 12-fret we picked up.  (Folks here know I am in the middle of a bad case of GAS trying to make up for the lost past 50 years, so NGDs seem to be a monthly occurrence for me 🙄)

Anyway, I  thought I would at least be humored on this one, because I included a pic of my Gibson DIF next to it as a “posting tax.”  I joked the music room was getting a bit “glittery.”  

So I watched as 38 people stopped by the post over the day and got nothing.  Not a single like,  no tepid “nice” comment,  not even ribbing from the usual suspects about it being a Taylor😆  I assessed I crossed a line and sheepishly took the post down  😅

But seriously, everybody understands folks have different gear.  The mods really only care about folks riling up trouble/breaking the posting rules, and even then it takes a lot.  

Welcome and have fun!

Taylor is an easy target for people who appreciate traditional luthiery because all of their parts are CNC milled throughout their entire price range. Whether you get their cheapest or most expensive version of a particular model you get the same CNC milled bracing etc 
 

Traditionally when making bracing for an acoustic you split the piece of wood with an axe so that it breaks along the grain. You then take those pieces and mill them in a way which maximizes the quartesawn orientation and minimizes grain runoff. Essentially you end up with the smallest lightest piece of wood which maximizes strength and straightness for its given application 

 

Taylor does everything by CNC on even their most high end instruments, so you really never get the benefit of traditional luthiery no matter how much you spend 

 

With Taylor you get the same guitar at all price ranges. You are just paying for a different type of wood that they inserted into a machine or inlays which are done by a machine or other aesthetic modifications 

 

It doesn’t sound like a big deal but for their high end stuff they are charging an amount of money that you could easily spend elsewhere and get a superior instrument

[PrairieDog]

36 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

Taylor is an easy target for people who appreciate traditional luthiery because all of their parts are CNC milled throughout their entire price range. Whether you get their cheapest or most expensive version of a particular model you get the same CNC milled bracing etc 
 

Traditionally when making bracing for an acoustic you split the piece of wood with an axe so that it breaks along the grain. You then take those pieces and mill them in a way which maximizes the quartesawn orientation and minimizes grain runoff. Essentially you end up with the smallest lightest piece of wood which maximizes strength and straightness for its given application 

 

Taylor does everything by CNC on even their most high end instruments, so you really never get the benefit of traditional luthiery no matter how much you spend 

 

With Taylor you get the same guitar at all price ranges. You are just paying for a different type of wood that they inserted into a machine or inlays which are done by a machine or other aesthetic modifications 

 

It doesn’t sound like a big deal but for their high end stuff they are charging an amount of money that you could easily spend elsewhere and get a superior instrument

So? it’s not like Gibson doesn’t use CNC machines and molds, and mechanical lathes, too.  Lots of big machines in those photos of the Gibson factory.  Everyone does, unless you are a high end boutique builder.  CNCs can still cut along the grain, and can be programmed with more precision than a human with a blade. And to be sure,  a human still has to pick out the right piece to place in the guitar.  It not all AI and robots, yet.  

I can assure you there are vast tonal differences between Taylors, they are not “all the same guitar.”  And c’mon, every company charges different prices for different styles/woods/appointments in basically the same shape we recognize as a “guitar.” 

And I guarantee having played just about every style of guitar now, in every price range, I have never heard the sound our Taylor Sinker/RW makes come out of any Gibson guitar, and it blows anyone away who has heard it.  Whatever the machines did that day, proves they will one day take over the world.  

To your point about being able to “buy better:” The only new guitars we have bought, the Urban Ash, and the J-45  Studio we bought for substantially less than full price.  Not many “better quality” American guitars can be had for the $800 bucks we dropped on the Urban Ash.  

The rest of our brood were bought used, and save two, all cost less than a new Gibson Standard j-45 (my pain threshold)  The DIF yes, was more, but it was in the low end of the Reverb range for used, and the Taylor 12-fret was nearly half price so close enough to squinch through .  

So I guess the retail cost for a Taylor is really immaterial.  But we do have a great range of sounds and guitars to pick from.   

Edited April 19 by PrairieDog

[John Shiflet]

1 hour ago, PrairieDog said:

Ooh, what did you get?  TBH, I never thought I would embrace a Taylor. The usual brightness they are known for hits my ears all wrong.

But my better half never had an instrument, and one day last year declared she wanted to learn guitar.  I was ecstatic.  I sang and played several instruments way back in the last century and always loved music.  I had a bit of a chance, but was more interested in being stupid. I put it all aside and went on with what I thought was a life.  

Anyway, we hiked down to GC and she tried every cheap import acoustic guitar in the room, insisting she didn’t deserve a “good” guitar yet.  I knew you often learn better on a quality instrument because they can be easier to play and you aren’t fighting shortcuts. So I finally was able to steer her towards the American made models.  

Still price conscious, she saw a Taylor Urban Ash GT  on clearance.  I inwardly cringed when she started to pick it up, but gamely covered my trepidation.  I was committed to making sure she got whatever she wanted, as long as it was a decent instrument. I braced myself, saying if this what it takes…  

It had a surprisingly well-rounded rich sound.  None of the Taylor “twang” but still nice trebles.  So it came home, along with an unintended, new Gibson J45 Walnut Studio for me 😀

I was clueless when I was a kid.  My guitar was a cheapie Yamaha classical, picked up at the local school band supply shop. Otherwise I borrowed nice electrics from friends. Even later on, I tended to lump brands into uniform, general sounds:  Gibsons= full and rich, guitary, Martins=muddy and dark, Taylors=shrill.  

Now that I’ve learned more about tone woods and builds in acoustics all bets are off, and Taylors are welcome at our party.  She has several. In fact, one of my favorite guitars, right up there with the DIF, is a Sinker Redwood/EIR Taylor 714ce NAMM special.  Unbelievable warm, liquid pure sound pours out of that thing. 

Now we have all kinds, several versions of acoustics, resonators, and even a few banjos.   And we just broke the envelope on electric a couple weeks ago, with a Gibson Lucille hollow body, followed immediately up with a Canadian Godin 5th Ave King Pin that dropped right after we picked up the Lucille.  Yes, we have bad GAS.     

Still can’t warm to a Martin, though.  yet to find one I can “hear” with my old metal bashed ears. 😆

 

 

You wrote:  I was clueless when I was a kid.  My guitar was a cheapie Yamaha classical, picked up at the local school band supply shop. Otherwise I borrowed nice electrics from friends. Even later on, I tended to lump brands into uniform, general sounds:  Gibsons= full and rich, guitary, Martins=muddy and dark, Taylors=shrill.  

My dear old Grandma, wanted to give me a nice present when I turned 21 and I knew her financial means were limited so I picked out a $110 Yamaha steel string and told her I'd be happy with that one, and, I was.  That was back in 1972 (after completing 3 years of duty in the Air Force) but it's complicated because I also had dual citizenship-a story for another time. My reference for quality acoustics was a Gibson J160e or was it an L160e (?) that a kindred spirited neighbor actually let me take home and practice on for a week. He just called it a "Jumbo" but it had a deep bass resonance I've not encountered since, very low string action-barely enough to avoid fret buzz, and a wide but very thin neck which made making chords easier. I've made do with the Yamaha for over 50 years, still have it, and although the sound output has improved only slightly in over a half century, it's still a $110 guitar which even back then wasn't a lot to pay for a decent acoustic.

Not to sound cryptic, but my current acoustic love affair involves a certain  324CE and because I'd like to keep it for a while, that's about all I'm comfortable iwith disclosing. (Warning: I have a very vicious Beaded Dragon lizard loose on the premises who will immediately change over into Jurassic Park mode if a stranger approaches her-now, you've been warned!)  The New T sounds sweet to my old ears but I've noticed the factory strings are harder and I have to limit my playing sessions because my left finger pads get sore. Never had that problem with electric strings (I prefer Cleartones and Thomastik-Infeld Power Brites ) and I always thought that acoustic strings weren't as hard on the fingers to fret.  My venerable old Yamaha will probably be the only one to go outside in the future but its 50 year old inexpensive case, although still functional, is getting to be on the Woebegone side so I'll need to find a case replacement soon. I won't sell or trade the old Japanese cheapy because of it's sentimental qualities.

I did play a lower end Martin at a campfire setting about 15 years ago (loaned) and I thought, this dull sounding thing  is a MARTIN?  I also sat and listened to someone play what was obviously a higher end Martin because of the amount of Mother of Pearl inlay from the headstock down to the sound hole.  Now, it had some sonic presence-I guess one should understand that Chevrolet base models and fully loaded $100K Cadillacs are still built by the same company. From a savvy marketing standpoint, the lowest priced base model acoustic should still have a sound that compares favorably with the more expensive models. Give the lower end buyer a better deal for their money and less profit margin, because when they are ready for that commemorative anniversary model priced ten times higher than the base model, they will still be loyal to the brand.  As a side note, I've long been fascinated with the oddball Ovation acoustics with their round carbon fiber (or is it fiberglass?) backs. They do seem to have a slightly different sound than most acoustics. I saw them being used on the Rod Stewart's video of Every Picture Tells a Story  and that distinctive Ovation sound came through.  i've heard that they are prone to structural problems but that's all I know. Paul Simon used to play a high end Ovation so they must be fairly good.

12 string models to me are like Dobro guitars-I owned a Dobro made by National for a couple of weeks in my 20's because a co-worker owed me money and he said I could have the  guitar instead. It was an older model, dirty, and poorly cared for. I put new quality strings on it, cleaned it up, and was just starting to enjoy it when the guy knocked on my door and he had the cash in his hand to pay off the debt as he stated he wanted the guitar back. Being the easy going kind of guy I am, I said, OK, I'll take the money and here's your guitar back with new strings and all cleaned up for you-please take better care of it. End of story.  I'll have to have someone show me how to play a 12 string and I have no idea about how they are tuned. (did I mention I've lived in a dark cave most of my life and only come out to see the seasons change?) I recently bought a slide stainless steel sleeve but slide guitar, I'm finding out, is a tough nut I've yet to crack. The sleeve seems too constricting for all but my pinkie finger so I think I'll get a Derek Trucks glass slide sleeve and give that one a whirl. At best, I may eventually be able to squeak out a few slide notes, but the Blues players have no reason whatsoever to worry about me.

[John Shiflet]

1 hour ago, PrairieDog said:

So? it’s not like Gibson doesn’t use CNC machines and molds, and mechanical lathes, too.  Lots of big machines in those photos of the Gibson factory.  Everyone does, unless you are a high end boutique builder.  CNCs can still cut along the grain, and can be programmed with more precision than a human with a blade. And to be sure,  a human still has to pick out the right piece to place in the guitar.  It not all AI and robots, yet.  

I can assure you there are vast tonal differences between Taylors, they are not “all the same guitar.”  And c’mon, every company charges different prices for different styles/woods/appointments in basically the same shape we recognize as a “guitar.” 

And I guarantee having played just about every style of guitar now, in every price range, I have never heard the sound our Taylor Sinker/RW makes come out of any Gibson guitar, and it blows anyone away who has heard it.  Whatever the machines did that day, proves they will one day take over the world.  

To your point about being able to “buy better:” The only new guitars we have bought, the Urban Ash, and the J-45  Studio we bought for substantially less than full price.  Not many “better quality” American guitars can be had for the $800 bucks we dropped on the Urban Ash.  

The rest of our brood were bought used, and save two, all cost less than a new Gibson Standard j-45 (my pain threshold)  The DIF yes, was more, but it was in the low end of the Reverb range for used, and the Taylor 12-fret was nearly half price so close enough to squinch through .  

So I guess the retail cost for a Taylor is really immaterial.  But we do have a great range of sounds and guitars to pick from.   

PrarieDog, I have to say we both have the same philosophy about acoustic instrument construction. Using the best, most efficient methods helps to keep models affordable, relatively speaking. Inflation has hit guitars like everything else. Despite mechanization and modern production techniques, quality acoustic guitars still have a lot of hand made input. When I read stories by veteran well known guitarists who bought some of their rarities way back when, I sigh when reading that they paid a couple of hundred dollars or Quid for a vintage guitar that would be valued at $25,000 or higher today.  Making guitars is surely not an easy business to be in because so many aspects have to be very carefully watched to maintain a profit margin. I'm seeing a certain brand now based in Scottsdale, AZ trying direct marketing to customers which surely makes their dealers smile. I think they are realizing artificially battered "relics" don't quite have the same buyer appeal that real classics with honest patina, have. I hope they are like Crypto currencies, maybe collected in the future for their novelty value and being questioned as a "what were they thinking?" fad. I'll salute Gibson once again for re-issuing "classics" and not getting too caught up in the make it look old no matter what it takes phenomenon.  I'd be just as happy with a 1964 ES-335 reissue as an original because playing a $50,000 guitar makes me a little nervous. In 50 years, that re-issue will have some genuine patina of its own and is likely to climb in value just like the originals that inspired it.  I screen copied one of Martin's Facebook ads because it shows the elaborate bracing in their guitars.  Doesn't matter if some pieces were entirely machine milled, the focus should be on a extreme degree of bracing making this look like an elephant could stand on it without breaking it. (please don't try that with your pet Elephant!) 

 

[Dub-T-123]

P Dawg. I was sorta careful to not inject any of my personal opinions into my post and just mentioned a couple things which I understand to be factual. Your reply gives me the feeling that you interpreted my post as bashing Taylor which is not my intention. I probably left a bit too much unsaid since I don’t want to be too wordy 

 

In no way did I suggest that the cheapest and most expensive version of a given Taylor model sound exactly the same. I said they use the exact same CNC milled bracing which is a fact. I obviously understand that using a different wood for the top etc will result in sonic differences and no two pieces of wood are completely identical. 
 

Again the point remains true that you get the exact same guitar with different materials and aesthetics at any price range 

 

I made no comparison to Gibson or any other mass manufacturer 

 

You either missed the point or are incorrect about the bracing. Loading a piece of wood into the CNC is not the same as what I described. I didn’t describe the whole process because I’m not a traditional luthier and I’m not trying to teach you how to be one. Hand carved bracing by a master luthier is objectively superior to mass produced CNC milled bracing in all ways except efficiency and profitability. 
 

A traditional luthier is going to progressively carve away at the bracing until he has the least amount of material possible which still offers the necessary amount of reinforcement. This produces a more resonant sound board. A CNC machine is going to invariably make every single piece a bit heavier than it needs to be to account for variables in materials 

 

Hopefully we can understand these facts without implying that Taylor guitars are “bad” or sound bad. Of course I realize the vast majority of Gibson and Martin parts are machine made. However Gibson and Martin have custom shops, where when you spend big money, you get a whole different level of craftsmanship. With Taylor you spend big money and you get the same guitar pumped out of the same machines with special materials and aesthetics 

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, John Shiflet said:

My dear old Grandma, wanted to give me a nice present when I turned 21 and I knew her financial means were limited so I picked out a $110 Yamaha steel string and told her I'd be happy with that one, and, I was.  That was back in 1972…

…The New T sounds sweet to my old ears but I've noticed the factory strings are harder and I have to limit my playing sessions because my left finger pads get sore….

…I did I recently bought a slide stainless steel sleeve but slide guitar, I'm finding out, is a tough nut I've yet to crack. The sleeve seems too constricting for all but my pinkie finger so I think I'll get a Derek Trucks glass slide sleeve and give that one a whirl. At best, I may eventually be able to squeak out a few slide notes, but the Blues players have no reason whatsoever to worry about me.

Haha, I could have been in the shop buying my classical version of your steel string the same day, lol.  I was just a kid, walked in, said I wanted a guitar and I had 85 bucks, and the guy handed me the Yamaha.  I had no clue there was even a difference between the fret boards. So here I had these tiny little hands and that giant, flat 2 inch wide neck.  God, I hated barre chords, lol.  

Re: playing pain, a couple things.  Yeah, it hurts some working the callouses back up, but if the pain persists long after you stop playing, you might consider if you have a nickel allergy, they can pop up in later years.  I forgot I had one until I started playing again, and thought, oh crap, I’m dead in the water.  Then some kind soul here suggested the Ddarrio XS coated Phosphor Bronze strings.  Total life saver.  Even if you don’t have an allergy, the coating still helps make the strings slicker. I don’t mind the tone, which is good because I don’t have a choice. but my wife likes them just because she finds them easier to play.  We use 12s pretty much.  

Re: the slides, they make different sizes, you just need to find one that fits.  Also, slide can work better with a touch higher action, so don’t get too hung up on it being you if  it’s not working so well.  You may just need another guitar to play slide on😄

[PrairieDog]

17 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

P Dawg. I was sorta careful to not inject any of my personal opinions into my post and just mentioned a couple things which I understand to be factual. Your reply gives me the feeling that you interpreted my post as bashing Taylor which is not my intention. I probably left a bit too much unsaid since I don’t want to be too wordy 

 

In no way did I suggest that the cheapest and most expensive version of a given Taylor model sound exactly the same. I said they use the exact same CNC milled bracing which is a fact. I obviously understand that using a different wood for the top etc will result in sonic differences and no two pieces of wood are completely identical. 
 

Again the point remains true that you get the exact same guitar with different materials and aesthetics at any price range 

 

I made no comparison to Gibson or any other mass manufacturer 

 

You either missed the point or are incorrect about the bracing. Loading a piece of wood into the CNC is not the same as what I described. I didn’t describe the whole process because I’m not a traditional luthier and I’m not trying to teach you how to be one. Hand carved bracing by a master luthier is objectively superior to mass produced CNC milled bracing in all ways except efficiency and profitability. 
 

A traditional luthier is going to progressively carve away at the bracing until he has the least amount of material possible which still offers the necessary amount of reinforcement. This produces a more resonant sound board. A CNC machine is going to invariably make every single piece a bit heavier than it needs to be to account for variables in materials 

 

Hopefully we can understand these facts without implying that Taylor guitars are “bad” or sound bad. Of course I realize the vast majority of Gibson and Martin parts are machine made. However Gibson and Martin have custom shops, where when you spend big money, you get a whole different level of craftsmanship. With Taylor you spend big money and you get the same guitar pumped out of the same machines with special materials and aesthetics 

I thought your post was okay, but yeah, it did sound like you were implying that unlike Taylor, Gibson has a bunch of master luthiers patiently carving away at each individual brace for 100s of standard guitars a day.  Sorry, if I came off touchy.  

I get now you were only talking about the true hand-built uber high-end customs.  I’m not in the market for any of those, and I hope the folks that are paying those prices for Taylor’s are savvy enough to know what they should compare to.  

Our 914 12-fret would be the closest to that sort of instrument. It competes with the Keb-Mo. The no frills, standard build, Gibson L00 12-fret (also machined) was more expensive than the used 912 Taylor that sported AAA grade woods, and frankly, it showed in the tones.  Believe me, I really thought the Gibby would win.  

There are a few other intangibles with Taylor, like we appreciate their environmental efforts, and that they are still owned by Taylor and his buddies and the employees. We kinda dig that sort of hippy vibe, even if it is second hand. 

Also, I’m not sure where you are getting the info that CNC cuts heavy or is less accurate than hand shaping.  CNCs can be programmed down to microns.  It’s the same tech that is used in robotic neurosurgery, and you know they are not going to let those machines cut any more than they have to 😄.  Not sure if guitars need that kind of accuracy, but there is no reason the lasers can’t be dialed in to account for the stock being loaded, and again, humans are still doing the final building, so they are going to catch anything that doesn’t pass the specs.  

 

[Dub-T-123]

I understand what you’re wrong about and why you’re wrong about it but it’s too much work for me to convince you with no incentive 

[PrairieDog]

13 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:

I understand what you’re wrong about and why you’re wrong about it but it’s too much work for me to convince you with no incentive 

Okay, and I know what you are wrong about from my side, so let’s just agree to be wrong together, cheers.  

[John Shiflet]

15 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

I was just a kid, walked in, said I wanted a guitar and I had 85 bucks, and the guy handed me the Yamaha.  I had no clue there was even a difference between the fret boards. So here I had these tiny little hands and that giant, flat 2 inch wide neck.  God, I hated barre chords, lol.  

Understood. I learned in my childhood I was different because I preferred using my left hand rather than my right. No one else in my family was left handed. If I wasn't already mixed up enough, when I first picked up a guitar, I had a beginner's How to Play Guitar booklet and everything illustrated was right hand oriented.  I followed the instructions perhaps a bit too closely because a zillion years later, this lefty still plays guitar right handed.

I can and do play Barre chords with ease and work hard maintaining hand and finger strength by using some Corona by-pass shears to cut limbs into smaller pieces. Our local waste hauler will only take yard wastes in recyclable paper bags, so big limbs get chopped and whittled down into chips which takes a lot of time and makes my left hand sore from chopping up limb pieces for hours.  When I had my first computer in the '90's several family members used it so it was obligatory to keep the mouse on the right side of the keybboard. I adapted to that arrangement pretty well and I know now that helped immensely to develop better right hand fine motor control.  That practice took me into digital art for a while including a collaboration with NYC photographer Mark Lentz, a/k/a the Roving Rube, in 2002. Honestly, I hate name dropping, but I've known some pretty cool people over the years. Here's a sample of some digital artworks I did during that hot Texas summer:   (can't get the link to not change into an image-how do I fix that?)

Getting back to the small hands and oversized neck, you overcame that challenge and probably that made you become a better player. Kind of like the famous Greek guy with a speech impediment who practiced speaking with a mouth full of marbles and later, he became one of the best speakers of the ancient world.  I'm convinced at this stage of the game, that life is mainly about overcoming obstacles and challenges-we all have our human frailties and shortcomings but we find creative ways to cope and overcome them allowing us to live a meaningful life.  Sounds like you took that love of guitar playing, and continued to grow in your artistic pursuits. I'm sure you've had moments when you thought to yourself,  if only I could have played that well when I was a kid, music would have been my life-long career.  (assuming nothing here, if it's now your paying gig, then more power to you) 

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, John Shiflet said:

Understood. I learned in my childhood I was different because I preferred using my left hand rather than my right. No one else in my family was left handed. If I wasn't already mixed up enough, when I first picked up a guitar, I had a beginner's How to Play Guitar booklet and everything illustrated was right hand oriented.  I followed the instructions perhaps a bit too closely because a zillion years later, this lefty still plays guitar right handed.

I can and do play Barre chords with ease and work hard maintaining hand and finger strength by using some Corona by-pass shears to cut limbs into smaller pieces. Our local waste hauler will only take yard wastes in recyclable paper bags, so big limbs get chopped and whittled down into chips which takes a lot of time and makes my left hand sore from chopping up limb pieces for hours.  When I had my first computer in the '90's several family members used it so it was obligatory to keep the mouse on the right side of the keybboard. I adapted to that arrangement pretty well and I know now that helped immensely to develop better right hand fine motor control.  That practice took me into digital art for a while including a collaboration with NYC photographer Mark Lentz, a/k/a the Roving Rube, in 2002. Honestly, I hate name dropping, but I've known some pretty cool people over the years. Here's a sample of some digital artworks I did during that hot Texas summer:   (can't get the link to not change into an image-how do I fix that?)

Getting back to the small hands and oversized neck, you overcame that challenge and probably that made you become a better player. Kind of like the famous Greek guy with a speech impediment who practiced speaking with a mouth full of marbles and later, he became one of the best speakers of the ancient world.  I'm convinced at this stage of the game, that life is mainly about overcoming obstacles and challenges-we all have our human frailties and shortcomings but we find creative ways to cope and overcome them allowing us to live a meaningful life.  Sounds like you took that love of guitar playing, and continued to grow in your artistic pursuits. I'm sure you've had moments when you thought to yourself,  if only I could have played that well when I was a kid, music would have been my life-long career.  (assuming nothing here, if it's now your paying gig, then more power to you) 

Oh god no. Long ago, I was offered a chance, let’s just say, “Minneapolis in the late 70s.”  But I was a dumb kid and didn’t understand the ride I could have stepped on.  I had my head turned in other directions and ended up in a series of stupid situations.  From what I heard from friends who did jump on (and teased me mercilessly for making the wrong choice) it was wild. But in all honesty, given where I was, I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t have survived very long, so I can honestly say it worked out for the best.  Anyway, except for hobby singing, I pretty much gave up playing music in the 80s. Just getting back into it now.  Wish my swiss cheese brain and arthritic fingers would catch up with my ambition, chuckle.  Btw, no problem with the pics showing up.  Most folks prefer it that way. It’s better not having to click on a link and go off the site.  My speeds up here at the end of the internet suck.  Nice image! 

[John Shiflet]

Well shucks, Prairie Dog (I like that name) I guess we all have to cope with the challenges we are faced with. When you have to look back to see 70 and your spouse and Mom left the living within 11 months (no, I'm not trying to play the pity card)  the road upwards and forwards has been slow and halting at times. I still think the missing ingredient is finding good hearted female companionship. I won't deny it, I'm attracted to nice perky, usually younger, women-does Susan Tedechi have any unmarried sisters who play guitar too? Getting back into music may somehow present a pathway to meet my next soulmate. OK, that sounds kinda' hokey but I do need someone who I can trust and can keep me energized and engaged with life.  All that said,  music to me is stepping into another sensual realm made of sound but sound  or more properly, musical sounds, can help the mind to form mental imagery. Ok, that sounds too esoteric and ephemeral...must have somethin' to do with the calendar date, huh?  Sit down and bring out the best tonight with your Gibson. I'm still "Ferengi" haggling with a Chicago music store about obtaining a red custom shop ES335 re-issue-I can meet their nosebleed price but can't meet the added taxes and shipping which would be taking me over an insane 5 grand. Frankly, I'm not five grand guitar owning material. I like nice, but Gucci and Prada are outside my realm.  Gibson guitars are different- I held that beautiful guitar gently in my hands carefully looking every inch of it over and it was like looking at a sculpted work of art. I reverently strummed it a bit without amplification and still the limited sound wasn't bad. I spiritually called cosmic dibs on that 335 while  in the demo sound booth and we'll see if I've  put out enough good Karma vibes to make it happen. If not, it's not the only one ever made. I just want to find one with soul, like my next lady in life,  so I can add my energy to it and pass that forward.

Now, as far as the Rock Star life and what the groupie scenes were like back in the day, the movie, Almost Famous, gives a somewhat accurate account of what the Rock world was like in the '70's when great talented bands and artists were popping up like mushrooms after the rain.  The bands changed with each new cover of the Rolling Stone magazine and getting you and your crew on the cover meant you were in the spotlight of fame, maybe only for Warhol's 15 minutes of fame, (  https://warholiana.com/post/81689862604/in-the-future-everyone-will-be-world-famous-for     ), but such was the Rock world in those halcyon days.   I may have missed the bus back then and the the last train has left Clarksville long ago, but the guitar still provides a sensual link to those glory days as the song reminds us.  Don't forget this either, please, assuming you're a "Boomer" try  to play the Age card as often as you can because maybe that's about all we've got left, huh? (and you're thinking: speak for yourself, punk, and keep on pretending to be an immature, 40-something Grandpa and see where you end up) Have a great 420 weekend, Folks, and enjoy the arrival of Spring.

[PrairieDog]

My rule is never buy more than I can afford, but I don’t get bound up fretting a bit extra if it means otherwise losing out on a bigger dream.  It’s how I justified my DIF (and maybe a few others 🙄). You’d think the shop would comp the shipping, taxes  they got no control over, of course.  

Yeah, there are a lot of guitars out there, but only so many will really speak to you…. Not that I’m trying to tempt you into doing anything financially dangerous.

Chuckle about the 15 mins.  When I was a young teen, Andy came for the opening of his show here at the Walker.  There was a fancy private party for him. I was friends with the family that was throwing it and snagged a last minute invite.  Except, I had already made another commitment for that evening. My mom, who only used these opportunities to mess with me, threw a fit and gave me a roiling (and rather hypocritical) lecture about the importance of meeting responsibilities when I broached ditching the prior thing to attend the party of the decade. Not big enough yet, I toed the line and missed the soiree.  Ah well… 

Not sure if you remember the Woody Allen movie, Zelig?  Yeah, I’ve bounced around on the fringes of some interesting events but never been the center, thank god.  

[duane v]

On 4/20/2024 at 7:56 PM, PrairieDog said:

My rule is never buy more than I can afford,

My rule is never lend more money that can kill a friendship...... Half the time I have lent money to friends, I have never seen it.

As for buying guitars..... I have certainly stepped over the red line on more than a few occasions...... Sometimes you just have to go outside the financial  guard-band.

[PrairieDog]

21 hours ago, duane v said:

My rule is never lend more money that can kill a friendship...... Half the time I have lent money to friends, I have never seen it.

As for buying guitars..... I have certainly stepped over the red line on more than a few occasions...... Sometimes you just have to go outside the financial  guard-band.

Nod, like I said, so far we’ve only done it twice, but I’m sure glad we did 😄

My version on loans is never lend money I can’t afford to give away. Then just give it if someone needs it.  No strings.  If they are hard up enough to need a loan, they don’t need more debt digging them even deeper.  Sometimes I get paid back anyway, that’s nice, but not necessary.  Debt to me is the worst thing in the world for both sides. And more often than not, just a few bucks to me is a lifeline or safety net to a precarious friend or rellie.  I remember the generosities I was shown when I was in bad straits that made all the difference in getting me back on my feet.  Just trying to pay that forward when I can.

Edited April 24 by PrairieDog

[John Shiflet]

This weekend I finally finished cleaning and reassembly of the 20 W Rocktron practice amp I bought on e-bay for $50. It looks pretty good with my 100 W 2x12 Rocktron Replitone modeling amp:           At first the  sound didn't work but I remembered on the "mama" amp I had experienced sound problems related to using headphones, so I then tried headphones and there was sound. So, I unplugged the headphones, switched off the amp, then turned it back on and the speaker sound worked fine. I tweaked the knobs a bit and got an acceptable sound blend. The Replitone model weighs around 60 lbs and is a lot to lug up and down stairs so anytime I need to go make some noise "baby" amp can take care of it.  The little amp was full of dust, dirt, and yard debris and the grille looked like it had fallen into an oil pit, The power cord had slid through the grommet in the back of the amp chassis so the power cord was dangling by the wires so had to fix that issue, just one of several that needed attention-this photo was just before I started reassembling it: