ES-330TD 1961 advice?

[Gibson-es330TD]

Hi Everyone,

 

I was wondering if you guys could offer me some advice? I'm fairly new to vintage guitars and I'm a bit lost (and don't trust my local guitar shop).

 

I was given a blonde coloured Gibson ES-330TD (it's stamped in the left f hole) but there doesn't seem to be a serial number on it? Then again, the head stock appears to have a badly repaired crack on it which leads me to believe that during the repair, the serial may have been sanded off? I am desperate to know more about this guitar.

 

The previous owner who is now in his late 80's told me he bought it from the 'factory' and that he asked them to do it in blonde with a Bigsby (which it still has), due to his age, getting any sense from the old guy is a challenge to say the least. He had the dog ear P90's taken off and had them replaced with DeArmond pick-ups which I am sure cannot be changed back around due to the shape of the DeArmonds, I'm sure they would have needed to cut into the wood to fit them. He thinks he bought it in 1961 but can't be 100% certain.

 

Is there anyway I can find out more about this guitar? Where it was made? When? Should there be a serial? If so, can I find out what it should be by some other means? Does anyone know the range of the serial numbers for the 330's?

 

It still has it's original case and it is a very nice guitar indeed. Does anyone know how I can try and restore it without messing it up even more or without losing more value that it's already lost? I'm not going to sell it is the prettiest guitar I have ever seen and want to hold on to it (despite the DeArmond massacre that has taken place on it)

 

Thank you so much for any advice and tips you can offer, I'm very grateful!

 

Dave.

[L5Larry]

I'll try to help you with what I know in general about this era Gibson ES guitars, and nearly 40 years in the guitar "biz". I have no personal knowlege of the ES-330 model, my information all comes from the higher end 335 and 345 models, and the vintage guitar marley in general. There are a couple of 330 owner on this website, maybe one of them will chime in also.

 

Your guitar was made in Kalamazoo, Michigan. It was the ONLY Gibson factory and all models were built in Kalamazoo until they opened the Nashville plant sometime in the early/mid seventies.

 

The original ES models ('58, '59, until ?) did not have stamped, or embossed, serial numbers on the back of the headstock. The model number and serial number, was on an oval orange label under the bass side f-hole. You say the model number is "stamped in the left f-hole", is it on an orange oval label? If so that is where you will find the serial number.

 

There is no "range" of serial numbers for specific instruments, Gibson's SN systems were applied to all instruments at the same time.

 

If the number was ink stamped on the back of the headstock, it is very possible that it may have been destroyed during the finish touch-up after the headstock repair. If it was an embossed or impressed into the wood, you should still be able to see evidence of it by shining a flashlight on a flat angle across the headstock. You are looking for the slightest shadows of any indentations in the wood. Another way to look "through" the refinish is by using a black light (ultraviolet).

 

Another way to get an idea of the era of which it was built is by finding the code numbers off the back of the potentiometers. This will take a small telescopic mirror, a small flashlight, and a lot of luck. Many times the numbers get soldered over when connecting the ground wires to the back of the pots. The number you are hoping to find will be a seven-digit number, probably starting with "137" (the mfg code for CTS). The next two numbers are the last two digits of the year the pots were made, and the last two numbers are the week of that year. if you can find a complete number off one of the pots it will give you an "idea" of when the guitar was made. Gibson bought parts in bulk quantities, and who knows how long it might have taken to use up all the parts from a specific order. But if you do find a pot code, one thing for sure is your guitar could not have been made any earlier than the code date.

 

Now for the bad news. Due to the headstock break, and the pickup replacement (and probable alteration of the pickup holes in the soundboard), your guitar has $0 vintage or collectors value. That doesn't mean it is not a beautiful, great playing, great sounding guitar. It means that technically it is just an old guitar with major structural repairs and modifications, and can under no definition of the term be considered "vintage". Plus the fact that the 330 was a "student" model and is not sought after by collectors anyway. One of the unfortunate realities of the "vintage" market these days is that if you stripped the original parts off the guitar (Bigby, tuners, pots, pickguard, switch, bridge, case, etc) they would bring you more money than the assembled guitar.

 

If the pickup holes have been recut to fit the deArmonds, there is no "restoration" possible. If that is the case, and since it has no collectors value and is not a "vintage" piece, that leaves you free to do anything you want to the guitar without affecting it's value. Paint it purple, put bumper stickers on it, have all your friend autograph it, the value of the guitar is already gone, you can't devalue it any further.

[Gibson-es330TD]

Hi Larry,

 

Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it. I kind of knew it was a lost cause but thought I would ask anyway. It sounds amazing though and really does look the part, I must say! I've been offered £2500 ($3,734.17) by a local guitar shop and also by a friend of a friend who is in a band, so not all bad, but I am going to keep a hold of it anyway.

 

Your a gentleman, thanks Larry.

 

Dave.

[JimR56]

Now for the bad news. Due to the headstock break' date=' and the pickup replacement (and probable alteration of the pickup holes in the soundboard), your guitar has $0 vintage or collectors value.[/quote']

$0? Absurd. $3700 sounds a bit high assuming the damage/repairs/alterations are as serious and permanent as has been suggested, but $0?

 

That doesn't mean it is not a beautiful, great playing, great sounding guitar. It means that technically it is just an old guitar with major structural repairs and modifications, and can under no definition of the term be considered "vintage".

No, it means that it's no longer a "collector's" guitar. It's still a VINTAGE guitar. A repaired and modified vintage guitar, yes, but it's still old (vintage).

 

Plus the fact that the 330 was a "student" model and is not sought after by collectors anyway.

Utter nonsense. Who told you that a 330 was a "student" model? There are some great professional players who used 330's. Grant Green, for example. B.B. King also used one for a time.

 

There are plenty of collectors who seek (unmodified) 330's, especially in a natural finish, which is far more rare (which is true for just about all Gibson archtops/hollowbodies). Just because they're not as desirable as old 335's, 345's and 355's, that doesn't mean that they have no appeal or collectability.

 

If the pickup holes have been recut to fit the deArmonds, there is no "restoration" possible. If that is the case, and since it has no collectors value and is not a "vintage" piece, that leaves you free to do anything you want to the guitar without affecting it's value. Paint it purple, put bumper stickers on it, have all your friend autograph it, the value of the guitar is already gone, you can't devalue it any further.

In addition to being false, this is horrible advice. The guitar certainly still has some value as an old Gibson, and modifying it further (especially painting it purple or adding stickers, etc) would definitely make the situation worse in terms of its value.

[oversea]

I totally agree with JimR56

 

 

 

1. The ES-330 was not "just a student model". It's a guitar widely used as a professional instrument. You can find all the players on Wikipedia.

 

2. Collectors guitar, No.... But It's vintage. As Jim56 said, you can't say something isn't vintage just because it's been repaired and modified.

 

3. You will get more money of the guitar by taking down and selling it piece by piece. Buy I wouldn't advice you to do it.

2500 pound is alot of money for such a beat up guitar.

If you would sell it for that you could without a doubt find another on ebay in better conditions for that money.

 

4. if your not restoring original parts. Don't ever change or modify anything on an old guitar like that (painting, stickers ect), As JimR56 said. That's just a horrible advice.

 

 

I like the ES-330. I think it's a good blues/jazz guitar... or rock'n'roll.

Would be cool to see a picture here!

[SamWhips]

I have an ES-330TB (tobacco burst). It was my dad's and he gave it to me because he doesn't play anymore. My Grandma bought it for him around 1961-1963 at a pawn shop in Houston. Mine doesn't have a serial number on it either and none of the old-schoolers around Austin can't narrow it down to a year. One thing I do know about it is that it sounds like the voice of God speaking guitar. It is a feedback monster but you can get away with any style on this one. I even play some metal with it It's a badass guitar!!!

[Figaro]

A 1961 ES 330 will NOT have a serial number stamped on the back of the headstock. It will have a FON (Factory Order Number) stamped on the inside of one of the f holes. It should start with a Q if it is a 1961. Natural (blonde) ES 330's are very rare but Gibson did not offer the blonde color in 1961. It was only available in 1959 and 1960, so it could be one of those years. Please try to find the FON number in one of the f holes. Of course, it also could be have been re-finished.

[Notes_Norton]

I wonder who started the rumor that a 330 is a student's instrument?

 

Probably jealous 335 owners

 

Personally, I think the 330 is the most under-appreciated archtop in the Gibson line. I'll take it over the 335 anyday. Light weight, acoustic availability for practice, and that wonderful P90 sound which IMHO sounds clearer and is much more responsive to your picking than any humbucker. But that's just me.

 

It's also funny how the Epiphone Casino is not considered a student instrument, because Keith Richards and 3 of the Beatles had one.

 

Oh well, just musing on the subject.

 

 

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