Vintage Riviera Question

[Amino Moore]

Hi gang!

I have a question regarding the Epiphone Riviera I am hoping someone can answer.

There is a really nice (from what I can tell in the pics) cherry sunburst Epi Riviera for sale here locally.

Thing is, the guy swears it's a 1952 model.

I thought that Epi didn't start making Riv's until after the Gibson merger/buyout in the early sixties.

Would someone care to enlighten me?

Here's the link

 

http://www.golsn.com/listings/musical_instruments/instruments/299492.html

 

I would love to buy it but I'm not shelling out that kind of cash for a Riv (Maybe I would for a gibby 335) vintage or not.

 

Uncle Al, Jerry Mac, anybody??

[Guest]

Hi gang!

I have a question regarding the Epiphone Riviera I am hoping someone can answer.

There is a really nice (from what I can tell in the pics) cherry sunburst Epi Riviera for sale here locally.

Thing is' date=' the guy swears it's a 1952 model.

I thought that Epi didn't start making Riv's until after the Gibson merger/buyout in the early sixties.

Would someone care to enlighten me?

Here's the link

 

http://www.golsn.com/listings/musical_instruments/instruments/299492.html

 

I would love to buy it but I'm not shelling out that kind of cash for a Riv (Maybe I would for a gibby 335) vintage or not.

 

Uncle Al, Jerry Mac, anybody??[/quote']

 

The Riviera came out in about 1962. Since it was derived from the Sheraton which was derived from the Gibson ES- 335 which didn't come along until 1958 the guitar *can't * be a 1952. In fact, judging by the knobs, chrome hardware and the sunburst pattern I'd say it was from one of the last model years of the Riviera (1968/1969-the Riviera was discontinued in 1970). I played a '65 Riviera for a long time and recently a '93 Reissue has become my number one guitar again. The *alleged* '52 Riviera is probably going to set you back about $3K- which is about half what a mid 60's ES-335 will- I Just noticed that the guy's asking $5600 for it which is just absurd..$3500 at the most..maybe a bit more for a pre-'65 but not $5600.... I have and play an ES-335 as well as the Riviera and while they're *similar* guitars in some ways they're actually very different animals and a lot is the difference between '57 Classics and Gibson Mini-Humbuckers. The ES-335 is a great "niche" guitar but leans more toward the solid body end of the spectrum where the Riviera in my opinion and feeling is slightly more toward the acoustic end. The mini-humbuckers have such a nice crispness and bite that the range of the Riviera is expanded and also covers the solid body end of things as well making it perhaps a more versatile guitar than the ES-335. There's no such thing as a '52 Riviera. My guess is that it's a '68 or '69. Good luck.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

[Amino Moore]

Thanks Al,

 

I kinda thought that you would have the lowdown on the early Epi's.

All those years of retail are paying dividends now aren't they!!

It's hard to tell if this seller is unaware or deliberately trying to misrepresent the guitar to make more money.

Before I posted here I sent him friendly email just saying that he might want to take it to George Gruhn (living near Nashville has some benefits) for an appraisal and age check. He replied that he knew it was a 1952 and thanked me for my concern. In other words get lost unless you want to buy it. So I decided to post here thinking that if someone was interested in it they might at least check here first.

Thanks again, Al.

P.S. I miss the pic of that sweet little doggie!

[carverman]

The '63 Epiphone catalog in my book "Gibson Guitars, Ted McCarty's

Golden Era", shows the Riviera. It also shows a Riviera 12 string version

in the '65 catalog. I had a 6 string Riviera for a while.

.really nice...I didn't care for the frequensator, I would have preferred

a Bigsby back then.

 

The Epi dealer that I worked for, convinced me to relinquish it in order to land an

important band member sale because the delivery times back then were a few

months to a year, depending on the models.

Gibson was expanding like crazy with production back in '66 and some models were

very difficult to get up here in Canada.

 

I 've regretted my decision to sell it back to the dealer as a favour to him.

I probably should have negotiated a better deal and got a replacement for

it when they were available..or a Howard Roberts model.

in exchange for it

Young and foolish as they say.

 

..and "Bobs" my uncle..or was.:-

[Guest]

Thanks Al' date='

 

I kinda thought that you would have the lowdown on the early Epi's.

All those years of retail are paying dividends now aren't they!!

It's hard to tell if this seller is unaware or deliberately trying to misrepresent the guitar to make more money.

Before I posted here I sent him friendly email just saying that he might want to take it to George Gruhn (living near Nashville has some benefits) for an appraisal and age check. He replied that he knew it was a 1952 and thanked me for my concern. In other words get lost unless you want to buy it. So I decided to post here thinking that if someone was interested in it they might at least check here first.

Thanks again, Al.

P.S. I miss the pic of that sweet little doggie![/quote']

 

Actually I was a brick and mortar shop keeper for only a relatively short time (maybe seven years and three shops over thirty five years years total and I was never the sole owner so it was never all on me)...loved being around guitars and musicians...hated being a shop keeper. What very often happens is someone buys these guitars with dollar signs in their eyes thinking they're worth a lot more than they are and then they price them out of this world...and sometimes they get lucky and someone pays asking price but usually they come back to reality sooner than that. There's a local pawn shop that has a late 60's Riviera 12 string that's been priced at $2750 since the first George Bush was president...fifteen years later his price is finally in line with what they're going for lol... There's also an indoor flea market that has a couple of guitar shops in it and it's the same story. If they get anything even slightly worthwhile they price it out of this world...until the rent comes due and they sell it for something more reasonable...If you own a guitar shop and you don't know anything about guitars perhaps it's time to sell baseball cards or something...and if you don't really know you shouldn't state that it's a 1952 anything in the first place...A few years back I used to run an ad in the local papers that said I bought guitars and I'd get all kinds of characters calling. Once I had a woman who said she had a 1930's Gibson acoustic and over the phone it sounded very promising...possibly an old Advanced Jumbo from her description... so I drove fifty miles to discover a mid 60's Gibson LGO selling at the time for maybe $300 which I would have paid about $175...I saw the guitar and after the disappointment I did offer her $175 or whatever and she went ballistic and called me a thief and a liar and said I wasn't going to get away with it because she'd already been to the local music shop and she knew what they were worth..because...IT WAS A GIBSON and GIBSONS ARE WORTH THOUSANDS...OK lady...sell it to the local dealer...later I saw it advertised in the Tradin' Times for $2000 and had to laugh...my guess is that she bought it from someone thinking it was worth a lot more and that didn't pan out for her.... I miss the doggie too but some scoundrel made off with it and besides, I heard it was dead.

 

...and Al's your uncle

[carverman]

I used to run an ad in the local papers that said I bought guitars and I'd get all kinds of characters calling. Once I had a woman who said she had a 1930's Gibson acoustic and over the phone it sounded very promising...possibly an old Advanced Jumbo from her description... so I drove fifty miles to discover a mid 60's Gibson LGO selling at the time for maybe $300 which I would have paid about $175

 

..and Al's your uncle

 

Well it was a Gibson! I remember those (vaguely). We got a one in for our students. Entry level

flattop. 24.5 inch scale, 20 frets..satin finish with mahogany top/sides/back.

They were selling for around $75 (suggested list price) in '60.

..and probably not that much more in '67, so even though the lady thought

you were ripping her off..in fact you were offering her a handsome speculator

profit of 125% or more. Had it been more attractive with some nicer tuners,

finish, etc, she might have sold it on E-B*y these days, and got almost that much for it.