Vintage classical guitar.... (bridge questions)

[duane v]

I'm the proud owner of this vintage f-hole nylon string guitar. However I'm at a impasse as to what bridge I should use....

 

a) Should I stay with the original trapeze/floating bridge set-up?

 

B) Or should I go with the more traditional anchored type classical guitar bridge?

 

IYO, what do you think would sound and work the best for this guitar..

 

thanx

 

 

[carverman]

First of all, your post is misdirected to Epiphone electrics rather than Epiphone

acoustics.

This guitar, vintage it may be, but more of a dept. store style of "flat top acoustic"

with a tailpiece, and probably what was a steel string floating bridge.

The headstock is typical of these guitars and would have steel rollers

rather than bone rollers as on a nylon string classical.

 

It's definitely not designed for nylon strings. It would be best to stay with

the movable bridge and with the bridge set correctly and a good set of

bronze strings on it...you probably might be surprised at the sound from it.

[duane v]

Sorry about the misplacement of this thread, but I figured since this particular forum has the most traffic, it would get more responses. Plus I figured there would be no harm done, since other threads within this forum have absolutely nothing to do with guitars.

 

If you don't mind me asking, why would you believe this is a steel string guitar? From what little info I have gathered from the seller, he was told not to put steel strings on this guitar. The nut is approximately 2" and the neck is completly flat with no radius. Which I always assumed was consistent with nylon string guitars.

 

I've looked on the internet, and I've only been able to find a handful of nylon string with f-holes, and even fewer with floating bridges. But I was told there is no sound advantage to either bridge style, other than the floating bridge has more adjustment in terms of dialing in the set-up/intonation

[carverman]

If you don't mind me asking' date=' why would you believe this is a steel string guitar? From what little info I have gathered from the seller, he was told not to put steel strings on this guitar. The nut is approximately 2" and the neck is completly flat with no radius. Which I always assumed was consistent with nylon string guitars.

 

I've looked on the internet, and I've only been able to find a handful of nylon string with f-holes, and even fewer with floating bridges. But I was told there is no sound advantage to either bridge style, other than the floating bridge has more adjustment in terms of dialing in the set-up/intonation

[/quote']

 

Sorry, without recognizing maker, it looks like a steel string guitar especially with tailpiece on it.

 

You don't want a floating bridge with nylon strings. Nylon strings stretch a lot more than steel and

it's important to have a solid bridge/bone saddle as close to the strings anchor point as possible

to maintain intonation. As far as a flat fb and 2" wide nut..a guitar maker can make the fb any

width they want and without a radius. The radius on the fb just allows a bit more comfort.

I have a classical with a 2" wide nut and fb..but it has the standard classical bridge glued on.

 

Ok, perhaps I was a bit hasty in labelling it as a "dept store" variety..but with f-holes and a flat top..

at least at first glance without closeups..that's what it looked like. I don't understand why the

seller told you not to put steel strings on it, especially with a tailpiece.

 

The main concern is the tension that the strings cause pulling on the top of the guitar.

Tthe bracing underneath and possible bridge plate for re-inforcement has to be there

to support a glued on concert classic bridge.

You would have to inspect it (or take it to a luthier) to view underneath to see how the ribbing

is done that can support a bridge..otherwise, the top will bow or dip (after a while) due to string

tension. Nylon strings have a less tension than steel, but still has quite a bit of tension

at concert pitch.

[TWANG]

I can see carvers point pretty easily.

If the binding and other fancy work is paint, then it's not what you call top of the line by any stretch.

For instance, my silvertone f hole has a trapeze tail, and steel strings, and painted on binding.

 

the steel strings will increase tension.. the trap tail puts the bulk of that on the guitars struture, instead of just the top.

Most likely, someone was simply worried that an older guitar, not top of the line solid woods or particualarly great construction, would stress too

easily.

 

And carver is right again that nylon strings would probably not get the top moving enough to really bring out the tone this guitar has.

 

I'd use a trap tail, and I'd use light guage, maybe silk n steel strings.

 

The top on my f hole archtop silvertone is 'lumpy' near the bridge.

Even with the trap tail the pressure has caused the arch curves to warp a bit..it's a solid top, so they are prone to that more than laminated.

Mine is quite old, though. One person claimed the 1940s, I believe mid '60s.

 

another thing to look at and keep an eye on is the neck where it meets the body.

As with mine, yours seems to have no truss rod for adjusting.. this means that over time the neck bows forward.. leaving the frets from the body neck joint up very high. unplayable on mine, really.

and that means a neck removal and reset.. something that simply wouldn't be cost effective on mine.

So proper humidity, light guage strings, trap tail.. that's my recommendation.

 

It still could be a nice guitar though.. hard to say through pics!

 

TWANG

[carverman]

I'd use a trap tail' date=' and I'd use light guage, maybe silk n steel strings.

[/quote']

 

Good point Twang: I forgot about silk'n'steel..that would be quite appropriate

for this style of guitar. Back in the late 60's, Epiphone Kalamazoo introduced

the Troubadour..a dreadnought with silkn'steel strings. It was a great sounding

guitar and I'm not sure why that model was discontinued..but it sounded very

nice with those strings.

 

I didn't want to refer to it as a Sears Silvertone (or whatever) without a

closeup..but I have seen a few of these fancy "paintwork" guitars with

tailpieces and floating bridges in the past..and they are generally what

you would call "entry level" guitars.

 

The top on my f hole archtop silvertone is 'lumpy' near the bridge.

Even with the trap tail the pressure has caused the arch curves to warp a bit..it's a solid top, so they are prone to that more than laminated.

Mine is quite old, though. One person claimed the 1940s, I believe mid '60s.

 

Most of these made for "dept stores" guitars by Harmony or Kay didn't have good

bracing underneath and the flat tops could deform with time..even with the

floating bridges. But they were a lot of fun for young kids (like me) starting out

and couldn't afford Gibsons..as matter of fact, I didn't even know Gibson existed

when I was a young grasshopper.

 

My first guitar was a western style "silvertone".It had a painted scene with cactus

and something else (lasso..maybe a cowboy twirling it.)...and it didn't have a radiused fretboard either.

The neck was warped, the action was way too high..but it did

have steel strings and a tailpiece.

 

So proper humidity, light guage strings, trap tail.. that's my recommendation.

It still could be a nice guitar though.. hard to say through pics!

TWANG

 

It certainly looks like a collector guitar...many of those old Silvertone (Roy Rogers etc) are worth something

on the collectors market..because Harmony and Kay (at least the US factories in Chicago) aren't around

anymore..so from a novelty POV, they are worth something, IMO.

[TWANG]

at one time we all had those red with white paint binding flat tops.. small and so dead.. man. they were terrible. Harmonys I think they were.

You'd try and try and try and all you'd get was sore fingers and smart remarks.

 

We must have really loved guitar boy..

 

TWANG

[duane v]

WOW!!

 

Thanks for all the info!!!

 

The neck looks like it's pretty straight, and I would like to make it a nylon string guitar just to see how it sounds, because I dont have one.

 

First things first is have my Luthier clean it up, and get it set-up. If I like the sound, I'll have him re-surface the whole thing while maintaining the art work on the guitar. (or maybe not)

 

For as old as this thing is, it's in great shape...

 

again thanks for all the advice.

[duane v]

The boys at the epiwiki forum pretty much state the same, that the body isnt made for a traditional classical bridge. (bracing issues).

 

I hope it sounds good as a nylon string