InsideMan Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I want to put an isolated toggle switch on an Epi 175--for cosmetic reasons really--and can't find a list of the hardware I would need. (I'm sure there is more than just the rubber grommet.) An exploded diagram would be even better. Thanks in advance for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsideMan Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 OK. Let me start the ball rolling. Here is the grommet used by Gibson to isolate the pickup selector switch (per Guitar Parts Resource) - And here, I have genned-up a drawing for fitting the switch into the archtop body - As you can see, I have imagined a washer on top beneath the nut, and only the switch on the bottom of the grommet. My problem is, I have never seen this setup in real life. (My L-5 WM only has one pickup!) So I would really appreciate some feedback on whether this is how the switch is mounted, as well as a clue as to the additional mounting hardware needed. I figure I will probably have to replace the Epi switch with a Gibson switch, but can't find any reference to the additional hardware. Thanks and Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 You need a switchcraft straight toggle and a deep threaded nut. (EP-4923-001) http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/electrical_toggleswitches.htm There is no washer required. The switchcraft switch sits in the rubber grommet and the grommet is designed to accomodate the deep nut, so it is recessed. Looking at mine, it appears to be about a 3/4" diameter hole in the top that accomodates the rubber grommet which has rubber 1 1/8" "lip" on top and bottom and just sits in the hole due to rubber tension. My Epi Broadway Elitist has the "L5" floating switch rubber grommet. EDIT: You will also need a nutdriver that fits onto the deep threaded nut, which has a serrated/knurled round edge, to screw the deep threaded nut into the grommet. http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Wrenches/Toggle_Switch_Wrench.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generation zero Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Is there a functional purpose for doing it that way? I know you said you want to do it for cosmetics, but I was just wondering why they do it on the more expensive models. I would think it would be related to top vibration, maybe to keep the switch from rattling? I wouldn't think it would work too well though, the rubber is still going to vibrate enough to rattle the switch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Is there a functional purpose for doing it that way? I know you said you want to do it for cosmetics' date=' but I was just wondering why they do it on the more expensive models. I would think it would be related to top vibration, maybe to keep the switch from rattling? I wouldn't think it would work too well though, the rubber is still going to vibrate enough to rattle the switch... [/quote'] It was first used on the L5 because of the thicker carved top and the fact that the switchcraft switch has only so many threads. Even with the deep nut, it might have been marginal on the carved tops without the grommet. Certainly it improves the appearance of any natural L4/L5 and even used on the Byrdland. It also makes the switch a bit quieter by muffling it and isolating the operation from the acoustic top. The ES-175 and other archtop models with thinner plywood tops, don't seem use this method, just a regular round nut....maybe because it requires a large hole for the grommet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generation zero Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Ahh, that makes more sense. So it was a mounting requirement, not a rattle solution. I get it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsideMan Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Caverman, Thank you very much for your response. You cleared up a lot for me. GZ, The isolation is not to protect the switch from the pickups, it's to protect the pickups from the switch. Gibson started using them on the older archtops to keep the switch from transmitting a "ka-chunk" through the pickups to the amplifier when the switch was activated. The older ES-175s used the them. The modern ones do not--better pickup potting techniques, etc. may have decreased microphonics on the new humbuckers. Again, thanks. Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabar Posted March 4, 2009 Share Posted March 4, 2009 The rubber grommet was added to the ES-175 because the switch made an audible "clunk" through the pickups; by isolating the switch from the top with a vibration-absorbing material this problem was solved. This design was also included on the L5-CES, Super 400 and Barney Kessel models. More recent ES-175 reissues have eliminated the rubber grommet, as better switch designs have made it unnecessary. (no grommet was ever used on any of the 335/345/355 models, and no problems of unwanted noise have been reported). The grommet is still used on the L5-CES and Super 400 CES models; this is more for looks and tradition than actual function anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 The rubber grommet was added to the ES-175 because the switch made an audible "clunk" through the pickups; by isolating the switch from the top with a vibration-absorbing material this problem was solved. This design was also included on the L5-CES' date=' Super 400 and Barney Kessel models. More recent ES-175 reissues have eliminated the rubber grommet, as better switch designs have made it unnecessary. (no grommet was ever used on any of the 335/345/355 models, and no problems of unwanted noise have been reported). The grommet is still used on the L5-CES and Super 400 CES models; this is more for looks and tradition than actual function anymore.[/quote'] ..and only on the two pickup models. The Elitist Broadway also uses the rubber grommet. Very quiet operation. Perhaps the older Super 400/L5 were more microphonic with the P-90s or early vintage pafs. I can't see that isolating the switch would have any effect on the more modern wax potted humbuckers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron G Posted March 6, 2009 Share Posted March 6, 2009 InsideMan: Take a look at something I bumped in while shopping (3rd down on the left): http://www.guitarpartsresource.com/electrical_toggleswitches.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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