EPI LP Classic Problem - Fretted chords sound "Off/Out of Tune"

[animalfarm]

Yesterday changed strings, did set-up today after stretching strings and letting them

"settle in" overnight (more detail in sec), Korg CA-30 tuner sez in tune, fretted chords

sound out of tune. A real head-scratcher, what am I overlooking/missing?

 

1. Changed strings (I always use Dean Markley 1973 reissue lites/ 42 - 09).

My other gits have same, sound fine.

2. Checked neck (very slight forward bow, just barely noticeable when sighting down neck).

3. Set action - 5/64 on bass side, 4/64 on high side.

4. Pencil lead in nut slots.

5. Tuned up, adjusted intonation with Korg CA-30 tuner. Re-tuned, rechecked, etc.)

6. Open strings - sound fine. Open G , sounds fine. Open D, sounds off. Fretted chords

up and down neck, sound slightly off - like the guitar is not quite tuned.

6. Individual notes up and down neck while watching Korg Tuner - some dead on,

some are slightly off.

7. Comparing harmonics "chimed" on neck by listening, sound in tune.

 

At this point, I'm scratching my head, must be missing something obvious?

Any input would be greatly appreciated. WHAT am I overlooking?

[animalfarm]

Afterthought - I recently replaced the "cheesy-looking" satin-finish bridge

on my Raven with an after-market bridge from Guitarfetish (REALLY), now

Raven tuning/playing is DEAD-ON. Just a coincidence, or is it possible that the

stock EPI "tune-o-matic" style bridge is contributing to this problem?

[brianh]

Animal, assuming the setup was done correctly, you are probably experiencing a common problem with the tempered nature of guitar. Some guitars have it worse than others, but they all have it to some degree which is why the Buzz Feiten tuning system and Earvana compensated nuts exist. I recently changed the stock nut to an Earvana compensated on a cheap Epi Dot, and it went from being virtually unplayable to being nearly perfect. I was actually kind of glad it sounded so terrible initially, because the guy I bought it from for $150 thought it was a crap guitar that couldn't be tuned. He was wrong, it's actually a pretty great guitar (now).

 

http://www.buzzfeiten.com/

http://www.earvana.com/

[Ron G]

It's entirely possible that an incorrect scale length caused by a bad neck and/or bridge set

could be the problem. I do not know how to properly measure scale length but I'm sure

a Google search will yield results. If it's a factory defect, Gibson will replace the guitar

under warranty. I understand that a guitar with this defect would not intonate

properly but there's no way for me to know if your intonation check was accurate.

[animalfarm]

Well, I'm a tech-oriented guy. Sooooo, the intonation was done as

well as I could using a screwdriver, a Korg ca-30 LCD needle tuner,

and watching the LCD needle - Tuned so there was no needle fluctuation,

intonated to same needle results. I've done the same for my other 2 gits,

THIS one seems to be the "problem child", and I'm looking to spank it's

azz (errr, FIX it). I am requesting opinions, thoughts, etc.

 

Brianh - I've heard about the Earvana via this forum, would have to call

and find out which one would be correct for my git, did follow your link to

look...Thanks! Maybe....Sounds VERY interesting.

 

RonG - Look at my signature line, it's the 2006. I snagged it from a pawn shop

in florida, no can return to dealer. It's MINT CONDITION, feel sorry for the poor

"bostid" that had to pawn it.

 

I do 90%+ of my own car repairs, using tech manuals, internet research, etc. and

have fixed some really BIZZARRE car problems with answers found via research.

So, I should be able to try almost any reasonable idea for solution. Never replaced

guitar nut, may have to go to local tech for that, but I know he's 2 weeks or more

backed up - next door neighbor used to play in same band.

 

Keep those cards and letters coming! GENTLEMEN, CAN YOU HELP ME???????

[matiac]

Mine did the same thing, and swapping the stock bridge for the Gotoh it now has, along with a slight neck tweak to offer a tad more relief, seemed to fix the problem...WITH MY GUITAR. Your results may vary Oh yeah, techy suggested using D'aQuisto strings...009/046 I believe they are, and haven't had a problem since.

[animalfarm]

Mine did the same thing' date=' and swapping the stock bridge for the Gotoh it now has, along with a slight neck tweak to offer a tad more relief, seemed to fix the problem...WITH MY GUITAR. Your results may vary Oh yeah, techy suggested using D'aQuisto strings...009/046 I believe they are, and haven't had a problem since.[/quote']

 

MATIAC!!!! Good to see you're back, hope all is well with you, and that you have some

primo pain meds until you're at 100% again!

Wondered about bridge, seemed strange how bridge swap on Raven West made such

a noticable difference, but stranger things have happened. I already have 2 bridges on

order as of last nite - one for beater git (Dean, not worthy of putting in sig. line), other

for....? Had no plans for it, yet.

[Ron G]

How did it play before you did all that stuff?

[Steven Lister]

Does Korg CA 30 use a battery? If so, put a new one in and try again.

 

Then try fretting/capo at 1st fret and tune to pitch + 1/2 step.

 

Still wiggy? Have you tried a wound 3rd yet?

 

Final suggestion = compensated tuning IOW this article tells what/why/how:

 

Guitar: How to tune the guitar correctly so it really sounds in tune

I’ve been playing guitar for over 20 years and as my ear has gotten better I have been burdened with the fact that the traditional tuning methods we use are just plain WRONG. Guitars are mathematically incorrect, they all are! ?No matter how good your intonation is, if you use the traditional tuning method of pure note tuning there is no way your guitar will be in tune all the way up and down the neck! I found this out after years of session playing that really good eared producers could hear it being out and most guitar players couldn’t because we got used to the guitar sounding this way and thought it was right! The conventional tuning methods are a compromise doing “tuning injustice” all over the guitar neck. I noticed that I would tune with all the notes tuned right and then I would have to do slight tuning adjustments while disregarding the tuner to make it sound “Sweet” or “Right”.

 

 

The search started 5 years back on how to fix this problem. I did some research and found out pianos are “temper tuned” and that’s why their tuning is so good. So I thought let’s apply that to guitar. After several years of trial and error I believe that this method of “temper tuning” for guitar is the only way to go, it simply works better ?and your guitar will sound beautiful anywhere on the neck and it simply blows away the traditional method.

 

 

So here’s the method: First and foremost you’ll need to set your guitars intonation properly with a fairly good tuner. I have a previous article on how to set your intonation and it’s very simple to do. Second I would recommend the Boss TU-12 series tuners on up or the Peterson strobe tuners, they are the best! The Boss Tu-12 is accurate to +/- 1cent so that’s very good and you can see exactly how many cents sharp or flat you are and that’s makes the tuning method easier. The Peterson is off the chart within 1/100th accuracy. The Peterson also has a “sweetened tuning” preset that’s very good!! ?I have a method that some strings will be pure note tuned to the tuner and that is shown as (0) and some other strings will be tuned SLIGHTLY sharp! So here’s the tuning offsets and these are VERY SLIGHT offsets but they sound great when done. Try tuning standard method and then tune “tempered” and you’ll instantly hear the difference guaranteed!!

 

 

Low E string or 6th string- 0- pure note

 

 

A string or 5th string - +1 cent SHARP

 

 

D string or 4th string- +1 cent SHARP

 

 

G string or 3rd string- +2 cents SHARP

 

 

B string or 2nd string -+1 cent SHARP

 

 

E string or 1st string – 0- pure note

 

 

There is another method that works great and that’s the Feiten system but that’s expensive and requires a small nut modification to your guitar and a different set of “tuning offsets”. This is a method you can use without any mods and certainly less expensive,? I would however invest in a high quality tuner sooner than later! -- Guitar Guru

 

Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby..., I'm going to play on:-"