What has more influence on tone, the style of circut, or the tubes in the circut?

[fenrirlupus]

simply put

if i were to get a "british" style preamp and stick "american" style 12ax7 tubes in it, would it sound more "british" or "american" ?

 

(let's just ignore speakers for a moment...)

[marvar]

simply put-no

there is no British or American 'style' preamp tubes, they all do the same thing- however, there is some difference in tone between different manufacturer's tubes. Ecc83=british designation for 12AX7. They supposedly all meet the same specs.

You can't put British speakers in a Fender amp, and expect it to sound like a marshall or vox either.

Read about the differences between Marshall and Fender tone stacks (internal circuits) here:

 

http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/differences.html

 

You can learn lots about tubes here-

http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/12ax7.html

[m-theory]

Everything affects the tone of an amp. The size of the transformers, whether or not it has a choke, whether it's SS rectified or tube rectified, the voltage on the plates, the current supplied, the type of output tubes, the tube and number of preamp tubes, the type and values of capacitors, the type and values of resistors, the type of wire used, whether it's PCB, PTP, or turret/eyelet built, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc. The speakers are the final step in the tone equation, and play a huge role, so swapping a speaker can yield a dramatic tone difference, but it's far from the magic bullet.

 

You CAN affect tonal changes with tube changes, however, though not as signficant as some of the other factors. If you want more clean headroom, you should start with a V1 of rather low gain, or perhaps go to a different but compatible tube altogether, and one that's markedly lower in gain. If you want more gain, you want a high gain tube in V1. Btw, this is generally the position that affects tone the most, as far as tubes go, because it's the first tube that the signal visits, and whatever comes out of that tube is what gets amplified over and over again.

 

Btw, headroom rules are the opposite for output tubes. For more clean headroom, your output tubes should be as high gain as you can find. For sooner breakup, you want lower gain. Trouble is, most places that sell tubes don't bother to test them and tell you where they lie amongst a given sampling. This is yet another reason why it's important to buy tubes from someone who's will to go this extra mile.

[fenrirlupus]

Btw' date=' headroom rules are the opposite for output tubes. For more clean headroom, your output tubes should be as high gain as you can find. For sooner breakup, you want lower gain. Trouble is, most places that sell tubes don't bother to test them and tell you where they lie amongst a given sampling. This is yet another reason why it's important to buy tubes from someone who's will to go this extra mile. [/quote']

music123 does this with tung sol tubes, and groovetubes does that too... but not every place that sells groovetubes will sell based on gain... strange that not all new sensors are tested for gain level...

 

well, i still just have my solid state amp, but i bought a blackstar HT DIST pedal... it's got this ISF thing to go between "british" and "american" sound

i made this post because i was going to get something else, but the ISF changed my mind...

 

but i suppose it wouldn't hurt to stick a tung sol in there... (it's supposed to be a bit different sounding than other russian tubes from new sensor... halo getter... and if it's not, who cares? that just means once one blows, i have a replacement...)

 

i know, a pedal won't give me touch sensitivity like a tube amp... no back end distortion... no SAG... but it's cheaper. i don't really have the money to spend on a blues custom...

 

 

EDIT: and i did do a speaker replacement... it helped, but solid state distortion really.... cannot be saved that way...

[fenrirlupus]

simply put-no

there is no British or American 'style' preamp tubes' date=' they all do the same thing- however, there is some difference in tone between different manufacturer's tubes. Ecc83=british designation for 12AX7. They supposedly all meet the same specs.

You can't put British speakers in a Fender amp, and expect it to sound like a marshall or vox either.

Read about the differences between Marshall and Fender tone stacks (internal circuits) here:

 

http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/differences.html

 

You can learn lots about tubes here-

http://www.guitaramplifierblueprinting.com/12ax7.html[/quote']

well i sort of meant... ecc83 vs. 12ax7A...

perhaps JJ vs. TungSol

[m-theory]

i bought a blackstar HT DIST pedal... it's got this ISF thing to go between "british" and "american" sound

"Infinite Shape Feature." It's a voicing circuit. Swapping tubes would probably make a noticeable difference, and is certainly worth experimenting with.

[fenrirlupus]

"Infinite Shape Feature." It's a voicing circuit. Swapping tubes would probably make a noticeable difference' date=' and is certainly worth experimenting with. [/quote']

well, for the price of a tung sol... i figure i'll go for it (don't think i want to try jj though, i try for a more "american" tone...)

[natn0]

tube brands have very little to do with "american" vs "british" sounds. eg. the difference between a tung-sol and a JJ 12ax7 is minute in this context.

 

and an ECC83 is a 12AX7. they are the same. you know, potato potato.

 

the difference between amerian and british sounds are the types of tubes used eg. 6l6 or el34 and the design and component values of the amp circuitry.