Epiphone Sheraton II intonation question

[CymrychHugh]

Hey guys, this is my first post here. I recently picked up a "new" black Epiphone Sheraton II, after selling my '07 Gibson Les Paul Studio Premium Plus. I'm very impressed with this guitar tone-wise, and was more than surprised with its crazy full sound. Despite some of the craftsmanship drawbacks (some "over spray" on the neck binding, some rough edges in the "f" holes, and a small patch of crooked body binding) it has been my favorite guitar to date. HOWEVER, the one thing I have the worse luck with most of my guitars is that the G-string's intonation is off pretty bad. I tried adjusting it on the saddles and it got better but it's still sharp when chording and playing individual notes. An avid epiphone buyer friend told me the frets may need to be leveled? I was thinking maybe the nut needs to get cut down? Also, I had no idea the Sheraton's were still made in Korea in 2008.

 

I'm really enjoying the forums so far. Any feedback would be great. Thanks guys.

[TWANG]

intonate the G string so it's slightly flat at the 12 fret, string pressed.

 

press g string at 3rd fret

distance from bottom of g string to top of first fret

while pressed at 3rd

should be a hair. a piece of copy paper. no more.

 

tune guitar with G also slightly flat.. don't go too far..

but it can get your 2nd fret.. and the first few frets are the ones that are going to be farthest off..

closer.. close enough to use anyway.

 

levelling the frets improves intonation, but really the problem is the scale is graph like and the intonation want's a more random placement of the frets.

So compensation is the rule.

how high your action is.. how it's intonated.. if you strive for perfection string to string open to 12th fret

you wont have harmony in the pitch esp. for open chords.

 

My low E is always a tick flat, the 3rd fret G on low E a tick sharp.

Depending on which I'll play more. I tweak it a bit.. like if I'm gonna be in G and use that root note..

 

but nut, action, bridge intonation. those all help you get close enough for rock n roll. or jazz. or.... whatever.

perfect aint in any of them.

But you can whittle it down bit by bit.

[brianh]

Hi Cy, welcome to the fourm (I'm in Montco).

 

Not sure how a fret leveling would improve intonation, that's primarily a bridge/saddle issue. Fret leveling (along with truss rod adjustment) is typically needed if you have buzzing frets, flat outs, or can't get the action where you want it.

 

Sheratons have a wide range of adjustment at the bridge, so kind of suprised you haven't been able to get it relatively intonated. On the other hand if you're having problems with the guitar staying in tune near the nut when playing chords around frets 1 to 4 (or so) then your nut may need to be adjusted slightly, recut or replaced. I have two MIK Sheratons and neither has needed any nut adjustment, so kind of suprised that yours do. Maybe it's not the original nut?

 

If you can post some pics, that would be a big help, here's the tutorial: http://forums.epiphone.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=8886

[epidotstudio]

If you're using a plain G string, a wound G will improve matters greatly, unless major string bending is an issue for your playing style.

[CymrychHugh]

Thanks for the quick responses guys! I'm going to give Twang's intonations recommendations a try. Also, epidotstudio I have been meaning to get a wound g-string since my LP was giving me problems. I should go out and get one asap.

[vomer]

Hi Hugh,

 

Which way is the saddle on your G facing? If the gtr has been set up for a wound G, the flat edge of the saddle might be facing the neck, which will limit how far your can move it (the apex) back. If this is the case, you can turn it round so the flat edge of the saddle faces the tailpiece, which will enable you to get the fretted note flatter.

 

Also, old or dodgy strings can upset intonation, I'd try new strings too.

 

Sorry if this is stuff you already know.

[TWANG]

lowering the action or raising it affects the intonation.there's no way around it.

action height and string guage affect the intontation. they have to, physics being what it is.

press farther with high action, you bend the string changing the pitch beyond the point at which you press it.

 

intonate a guitar with .008s and I guarantee your .011s wont be tuneable.

and less of a change will also affect it.

 

having your action set optimally, at bridge nut and truss rod relief is the fist step in getting your intonation correct, second only to having the right scale, fret distances, etc.

 

Once those things are right you can compensate.

many people find themselves with reverse saddles in order to gain more travel for the saddle, so they can get decent intonation and playability up and down the neck.

 

earvanna compensates at the nut, the same way the bridge does. the bridge saddle adjustments having more effect at the high end of the board, the nut therefore doing the same thing at the headstock end.

 

here's a tickle: it's still a compromise. can drive perfect pitch people nuts, or they're just overly self indulgent-I'm no frued.

[TWANG]

wound g string will have different effect than unwound. both on intonation settings and pickup response.

[eggs]

Hey Hugh...

 

Welcome to the Forum!

 

No 'wisdom' to add I'm afraid... & I am sure that you have already figured out how knowledgeable & generous your fellow Epi-heads are... But it does always blow me away[blink]!

 

Look forward to your future contributions.

 

eggmuffins