gigemaggs99 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Hello, I'm new to the forums and new to guitars. I bought a used Epiphone acoustic guitar. Inside the sound hole it says it's model is PR-350. The serial number is M93030300. I was wondering what year it is? I have a few questions...towards the top, past the nut but before the tuning heads there is a hole, I assume it's used for truing the neck? It's supposed to have a little "Gibson bell" covering that hole, held on with 3 small screws correct? Can I buy a replacement Gibson bell cover? The saddle when viewed from the perspective of looking from the bottom of the guitar towards the headstock, you can see a slight gap inbetween the saddle and the sound board. The gap is not 100% across where the saddle meets the soundboard. Looks like the gap starts at the A string and continues to just past the 1st E string. The gap is biggest in the middle of that area, and the gap size is about the width of my pick. Is this something I need to have looked at? Or is it just cosmetic? Should I just keep an eye on it? I'm just learning and this is a great guitar for me, as far as I know. When I read reviews on the Epiphone PR-350's, they all seem to have another part to them, i.e. PR350S, etc. etc.. Mine only has the PR-350 so I'm not sure what that means. Thanks for any helps/tips suggestions. Happy Learning/playing! Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Hi, Gus. Welcome to the forum. Could you post a picture of what you're describing? I think you mean that there's a gap between the soundboard and the bridge, but I'm not sure. The bridge is the wooden piece that is glued to the soundboard (the guitar's top). The saddle (the thin white part the strings touch) fits into it, as do the pins that hold the strings. A gap between the bridge and the soundboard is not good for tone, as described below. More important, though, is that it indicates a potentially very serious problem. The guitar should be exchanged or repaired right away before it gets worse; string tension may cause a loose bridge to pull off of the top. While this can happen slowly, its more likely that it will occur quite suddenly, and with explosive force. The bridge could hit you in the face or the eye while you're playing, and cause an injury. A gap between the saddle and the slot it fits in on the bridge is also not ideal; while it's not a serious problem, you're loosing some of the guitar's potential volume and tone, since a gap of any kind between a guitar's surfaces prevents the best possible transfer of acoustic vibration from the strings to the soundboard. A competent guitar tech or luthier can easily make a new saddle. The hole in the headstock is for adjusting the truss rod. A truss rod adjustment is made when the player wants to adjust the straightness of the neck. Some players prefer the neck to be very straight, and some prefer a slight bow, so the strings have some space to vibrate when struck hard, and don't rattle against the frets or fretboard. This bow is called relief. Truss rod adjustments may also be required due to environmental reasons: temperature or humidity can cause the neck to bow one way or the the other. A truss rod adjustment might also be made during the overall in the process of lowering a guitar's "action," or the height of the strings, a process which involves changing the height of the nut (the thing that touches the strings at the top of the fretboard) and the saddle. Frets.com and the Stewart-MacDonald website have very good articles about truss rod adjustments and guitar set-ups that it might be worthwhile to familiarize yourself with. Good luck, Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 Not likely you will be able to 'exchange' a used guitar. The bridge is pulling up. This should be stopped as soon as possible. It can be repaired by you or a competent guitar tech. All it needs is glue, clamping pressure and time. Unless, there is a cracked brace under the sound board. Check this with a mirror and flashlight. New truss rod covers are available on the secondary market. Stewart-Macdonald is one source. It will not have the Gibson bell shape as this requires a two screw attachment. An Epiphone TRC may have a bell like appearance, or more a Clovis point shape with a flat base that fits flush against the nut, using 3 screws. This vintage of Epiphone may or may not have an Epiphone epsilon on the TRC, or it may have said "Gibson", or it may have been blank. Any cover will do. You can sometimes find parts of this nature offered for sale on EBay. Welcome the the Epiphone owners club! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigemaggs99 Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share Posted January 25, 2011 Howdy, First of all thanks for the replies, suggetions, tips and ideas. The bad news...I took my used guitar into the local music store, they also have a repair shop and I asked them to look at it. He said, it's good I noticed the space/gap that is starting to show between the saddle and the sound board...the bad thing is it's not just the saddle that is separating. He held the guitar up by the neck and knocked on the sound board with the end of his finger. He said it should sound solid, like when he turned the guitar over and knocked on the back side, it did sound solid on the back. When he knocked on the front of the sound board, under the saddle there is a clank/rattle sound. He said this is usually not a good sign. He said the glue can get old over time and start to loosen up. He also wanted to know ghow much I paid for the guitar. I can't remember for sure as I've had it sitting in the case for a few years, I want to say around $125 for the Epiphone PR350 and the hard case. He said the amount of work (labor) that would have to go into attempting to fix it would be over $100+ so he suggested I play it as is and look into either a new guitar or another used one. He said in the end I would be putting more money into this guitar than it's worth. He also gave me some good tips and pointers on looking for a new/used guitar. As far as a new/used guitar goes...I'm a stay at home Dad so the budget is not wide open, plus I don't plan on joining a band so the $2000+ guitars, although they look very nice are WAY WAY WAY out of my league. I've been reading around on here and on the web and have a few picked out, but would like some advice, tips, ideas, on them.... One thing the man at the local shop told me, which seems like good advice is to not spend a lot of money on a beginner guitar and wait until I can play better, then I can try out different guitars and buy the one that "sounds" good to me. I told him if I'm going to upgrade I would like middle of the road. He said that would be $400-900, is what he would consider middle of the road. He said a good beginner guitar would be $125-300. I told him I'd like a solid top, he had one at their store that he considered a descent middle of the road beginner guitar. It is a yahmaha FDOIs. I'm not partial to any company...USA made would be better of course, but can someone point me in the direction of good beginner/intermediate guitars that have a solid top? Then I can compare, shop around, save up money for and play a guitar that isn't going to injury me :-) When I read some reviews on guitars one company that keeps coming up is Taylor, and more on topic the Taylor Big Baby. It says it's 15/16, and the man at the local shop said it's not a "full size" guitar. He also said, since it's not a full size guitar it's hard to compare it side by side with other Full Size guitars. Is there a benefit/downside to getting a 15/16th guitar? Is there a Gibson/Epiphone model that compares to the Taylor Big Baby? Thanks for any advice/suggestions and thanks again for the welcomes. Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship of fools Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 Gus someone told me about your guitar situation and may I suggest that you tke it to another shop sounds as if he was trying very hard to get you to buy another guitar, gluing the bridge down and probably one of the braces or maybe two at tops should not cost you $100.00. Please take it to several shops before you do anything and have them check it out and do not mention what the other guy said and I am sure you'll find someone who can do it for around $50-$60 which is about the right price. Tapping the top is not how you check these things out the tp and the back on all guitars are going to sound different. The PR-350 probably has a laminate top but that shouldn't really matter for a new player right now truss rod cover well you can worry about that later and paying a $125. with hard case is a great deal so spend the few dollars and you'll have a ( not great ) but a nice guitar for years to come and later as you improve you can look at higher priced instrument.Ship I wasn't suppose to post as I sold off all of my Epi's and gave a bunch back to folks, but I cannot tolerate jerks ripping off new folks with out really investigating the real problem and it didn't sound like he did that for the person who told me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigemaggs99 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Gus someone told me about your guitar situation and may I suggest that you tke it to another shop sounds as if he was trying very hard to get you to buy another guitar, gluing the bridge down and probably one of the braces or maybe two at tops should not cost you $100.00. Please take it to several shops before you do anything and have them check it out and do not mention what the other guy said and I am sure you'll find someone who can do it for around $50-$60 which is about the right price. Tapping the top is not how you check these things out the tp and the back on all guitars are going to sound different. The PR-350 probably has a laminate top but that shouldn't really matter for a new player right now truss rod cover well you can worry about that later and paying a $125. with hard case is a great deal so spend the few dollars and you'll have a ( not great ) but a nice guitar for years to come and later as you improve you can look at higher priced instrument.Ship I wasn't suppose to post as I sold off all of my Epi's and gave a bunch back to folks, but I cannot tolerate jerks ripping off new folks with out really investigating the real problem and it didn't sound like he did that for the person who told me. Thank you sir. There is another shop in town. I'll take it to them and see what they say, thanks for the advice and good tips. If I can make this guitar work, that would be GREAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el capitan Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 As Tommy K wrote, all it needs is glue,clamps & a litte time.A repair manual from the library? Otherwise almost all music shops farm out repair work to a local repairman/luthier & take a profit on top of what he charges them.If you find out who he is you could save money.He might advertise locally-maybe even in the shop.Ask other pickers, Keep us posted, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 While there are books on guitar repair, you'll be lucky to find a copy at a local library, but you might get lucky. Frets.com will show you what to look for, and how to fix it, if you have the skills and a modest selection of tools. Tapping is only one step in finding problems. He still should have gotten a mirror and a flash light. Probably, if there is a broken brace and / or bridge plate (under side of sound board directly below bridge), the cost to have someone else do the repair can exceed the value of the guitar. If, however, there was a loose brace, then re-gluing would not be terribly expensive. But... Epiphone owners tend to be price sensitive and usually able to do most repair jobs around the house themselves. So doing a repair of this nature yourself is certainly worth the time and cost of materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thawk Dean Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I happen to have a PR350E. It is a PR350 with an electronic pickup. I bought it used for a good price, $125USD because the pickup didn't work. I don't care because I'm a "newbie" of only 1 1/2 years on the git. My serial number puts mine at a 1991 manufacture. It has a select/laminate top. For my situation, living in a northern climate varying temp and humidity, it's ideal. I don't have to worry about the "care and feeding" of a solid top. Also, I've never played outside of my "closet". I play strictly for myself. I agree with the reply that recommended waiting until you play better to move up to a more premium git. My goal is to get good enough that I DESERVE a better git. I have added an Epi EL-00 parlour size git to my stable. Ultimately I have my eye on a Taylor "14" series when I get good enough. BUT, I've played a Songwriter and DROOLED over it. I had to wipe it off before I gave it back. Bottom Line from Me, Keep It Fun, Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigemaggs99 Posted January 26, 2011 Author Share Posted January 26, 2011 Well here's what the 2nd guitar store said.... He said the bridge is slightly off-center and yes there is a saddle seperation from the sound board but he said it wasn't too bad. He said to repair the brige and reglue everything it would be $50-65, not sure what the $15 dollar difference is....but he said this wouldn't fix what's wrong with it under the sound board. He did not say what was wrong with it under the sound board other than it would need "work". He said that work would be more than the guitar is worth. He didn't use a mirror or flash light either, just said it would need work underneath....not sure how he knew this by just looking at it...but they are the pros... I leave this 2nd store with these feelings: I'm new to this and maybe it's because I'm in a smaller town but they do not really seem to want to fix my guitar. They seem to kinda give off the impression that it would be a waste of their time. I guess this hobby/profession is more about higher end guitars and less about customer service? Maybe they are doing me a favor by saving me from dumping money into a guitar that's not worth the costs of the repairs? The man did say I could save the guitar a little longer by putting a lighter gauge string on it, but didn't suggest what that would be....so I said thank you and left. Guess I'll keep learning on this one. Thanks again for the ideas and suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 That's the down side to this price point of guitar. Repairs can be more than the guitar is worth. If it were a 1965 FT79 Epiphone Texan, worth a few thousand dollars, the cost of the repair would likely be the same. The difference is a $150 repair job on a $3000 guitar is a no brainer. A $150 repair on a $125 guitar, to some, is a fools errand. But if you don't have the $150 to spend, then neither guitar gets repaired. I am still befuddled that the second luthier knew just by looking at the outside that it was mucked up inside. Maybe it's me, but I like to SEE the problems. Find out what guitar you really, really want. Start saving for it. Either get the bridge replaired, or not. If $65 is hard to come by, just play it until you get the scratch to afford a newer, better guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 As for lighter strings... Here's once suggestion, and they may be too light for you to be comfortable with. Again, setup is vital, but with your bridge difficulty, I dunno. I use these on a cupla AE guitars and like them, although I think I probably need to mess with the truss rod a bit 'cuz they are... very light. http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/DR-Strings-ZEBRA-Acoustic-Electric-Lite-942?sku=456035 They're 9 to 42, the lightest I've seen specifically for 6-string acoustic and/or acoustic electric. They may sound a little tinny-boxy to you at first. Again, they may be a problem on a guitar with high action. On mine they're so low there's a bit of string buzz on the b string on one guitar for a cupla frets and all of 'em if I were to flatpick 'em. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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