Question for animalfarm/Gibson Vintage tuners

[johntrem]

Animalfarm,

Last October I needed some help installing some Gibson Vintage tuners on a Samick SG. You were quite helpful, thank you, and after installation I remarked on the difference in clarity, tone and volume the new tuners produced. You explained the reasons for the improvement which all made perfect sense. I'm still shaking my head in amazement when I play that SG, it made that much of a difference, and also, it stays in tune beautifully now. You said that you had replaced the tuners on two of your Epi Les Pauls with the same style Gibson Vintage tuners. I have an '04 Epi Les Paul Standard that still has it's original Grovers. Also, perched on a shelf in my music area, are another set of Gibson Vintage tuners. So, of course, you know what I'm thinking. A few questions: Did you switch out for reasons of tone or tuning stability, did it make the same difference sonically and was any reaming of the tuner hole in the pegboard required? I had to enlarge the holes in my SG. Still haven't made my mind up.

Thanks, John

[animalfarm]

I an at work "discretely" surfing the forum right now , but I WILL

answer your question later. Thanks for the thanks! +1 for YOU!

Anyone else, jump in.......

[Bender 4 Life]

I recently put a set of "Gibson Deluxe"s on my '56 Gold Top, no reaming of the pegholes was required, although I had to set the top screws into fresh wood (no existing holes, no big deal).....

I couldn't be happier, I like Grovers just fine.....but some guitars mandate Gibson Deluxes to "balance the mojo of the universe".

[animalfarm]

You said that you had replaced the tuners on two of your Epi Les Pauls with the same style Gibson Vintage tuners.

I have an '04 Epi Les Paul Standard that still has it's original Grovers.

Also, perched on a shelf in my music area, are another set of Gibson Vintage tuners.

A few questions:

(1). Did you switch out for reasons of tone or tuning stability?

(2). Did it make the same difference sonically?

(3). Was any reaming of the tuner hole in the pegboard required?

I had to enlarge the holes in my SG. Still haven't made my mind up.

Thanks, John

 

What you do to the git will depend on the size of the original tuner hole in

the headstock. Ideally, you will actually MEASURE the size of the hole after

removing a tuner - it's the Best way. It'll be either 8mm or 10mm, and it will

totally eliminate any "guessing".

 

The Gibson Deluxe tuners are 10mm. You had to enlarge the holes on your SG, so

same idea applies to your LP. As you are considering replacing the tuners anyway,

"sacrificing" a string so you can measure is what I would do.

 

On my Epi LPs, the hole was 10mm, but the tuners weren't quite a straight "drop in",

the fit was just a bit tight, so I used a home-made "flapper wheel" fo remove a couple

of thousandths of an inch from the inside of the tuner hole to get a smooth fit with no

resistance. (I'll post pics in a bit).

 

To answer your questions:

1. I switched tuners for 2 reasons - I wanted the Vintage Look, and the Gibson Deluxes appear

to have better internal gearing. I've read 14:1 and 16:1 tuning ratio, but trying to nail it

down is difficult. Even the GIBSON Store doesn't say what the ratio is. Duh.......

For me, the Deluxes have slightly better tuning stability, a nut on top to help

lock the tuner in place, and 2 mounting screws vs 1 mounting screw on the Grovers.

 

2. Sonically? As you've already noticed, more stable tuning. Internal gearing is better.

 

3. Reaming tuner hole ("Huh, huh - You said Reaming"....) - as noted above, just a bit.

 

Now the pics:

 

To remove a bit of material INSIDE the tuner hole I COULD have used a File or a Reamer,

but I chose the "poor man's flapper wheel" method. Been using it for years.

All you need is a Drill and Bit that is smaller than the tuner hole, masking tape, and

Fine/Very fine sandpaper. Remember, the Very fine sandpaper removes material in thousandths

of an inch - gives you more control over how much is removed.

 

Cut a Strip of sandpaper about 2" or 3" long, secure an end to the bit with masking tape.

Rough side of sandpaper faces Left as viewed from rear of drill.

Will look like this:

 

 

Then, wrap it around the bit torward the Right, keeping the rough side facing outward,

as (obviously) smooth paper doesn't sand very well. You'll be creating a MINI flapper wheel

like the one in the pic:

 

 

Then, insert bit/sandpaper into tuner hole, keeping the sandpaper tightly wrapped until

it's in the tuner hole, then release the sandpaper. It'll unroll itself a little.

As I don't have a Headstock available for demo, I'll use this "pretend headstock" for

illustration:

 

 

Make sure the Drill will be rotating in the Forward direction (to the Right), like

it would be if drilling a hole....

Finally, fire off the drill for a couple of seconds, moving back and forth slightly.

TURN OFF Drill, pull bit out of headstock, blow off dust, check tuner fit. DO NOT

pull drill out while running - the sandpaper will totally hose your Headstock finish.

 

Badda-Boom, Badda-Bing - You're done! Repeat if needed.

[johntrem]

Animal,

Thanks so much for your response and all the info and instructions included in your answers. It's encouraging to find out that the pegboard holes in an Epi LP are 10mm as are the size of the Gibson tuners. If any enlarging is not really necessary, I don't think I'll attempt it. When I began the switch out on the SG, I initially thought I would use a Dremel but I thought better of it and decided just going by hand would be safer. I hopped on down to Sears Hardware and picked up a hand reaming tool. I went very slowly and checked often. I didn't enlarge the holes enough so that the new tuners would "drop" in. I pushed them in till the back of the tuner was flush with the pegboard. It was a snug fit, but not too small. I think that snug fit and the tight contact is a contributing factor to the tone and volume improvement in the SG, so if it is the same situation with the LP, it will be what I'm after. I agree, the Vintage Tuners do look better on an LP, but it wasn't strictly a cosmetic change I was after. On the SG, it had the same style tuners, albeit, cheaply made repros and I wanted an improvement in tuning stability. The improvement in tone and volume was an unexpected and quite pleasing additional factor.

Also, thanks for reponding at work and taking a chance. I was fortunate enough to be able to retire a little over a month ago, so now I've plenty of time for guitar fiddling and such. I'll let you know the results. Thanks again,

John