ItsLoud Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 Hi, I have a Gibson acoustic that was my grandfathers. The only numbers I can find on it are in the soundhole. They are "273P". Also Gibson is written in a way I have never seen before on the headstock. I describe it as a scroll with the word "Gibson" across the scroll. I do not currently have the guitar with me but hopefully tomorrow or the next day I will get some pictures and can post them here then. My mother says she remembers my grandfather having the guitar when she was a child. My grandfather used to play in a bluegrass band and make records and do some radio stuff all locally. Thats about all the background I have on it. Pics to follow in the next day or 2. On a related note I have another Gibson acoustic that my father gave me. It is a C-1 classical guitar with a serial number of 098782. I do have it here so I will edit with pics in a few minutes. I was wanting to see for sure what year the C-1 is also. From what I can tell its around 1967. Thats also the year my father says he thinks he bought it. All info is appreciated. Thanks. Heres some pics of the C-1 classical: The bridge came unglued, I guess due to age the glue dried out. I have the original bridge and am taking it tomorrow to see about getting it repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsLoud Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Hi, I have a Gibson acoustic that was my grandfathers. The only numbers I can find on it are in the soundhole. They are "273P". Also Gibson is written in a way I have never seen before on the headstock. I describe it as a scroll with the word "Gibson" across the scroll. I do not currently have the guitar with me but hopefully tomorrow or the next day I will get some pictures and can post them here then. My mother says she remembers my grandfather having the guitar when she was a child. My grandfather used to play in a bluegrass band and make records and do some radio stuff all locally. Thats about all the background I have on it. Pics to follow in the next day or 2. On a related note I have another Gibson acoustic that my father gave me. It is a C-1 classical guitar with a serial number of 098782. I do have it here so I will edit with pics in a few minutes. I was wanting to see for sure what year the C-1 is also. From what I can tell its around 1967. Thats also the year my father says he thinks he bought it. All info is appreciated. Thanks. Heres some pics of the C-1 classical: The bridge came unglued, I guess due to age the glue dried out. I have the original bridge and am taking it tomorrow to see about getting it repaired. No one has any ideas? Im finding "1903" for the year on the "273P" serial number. Sounds about right to me but I'd like to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 Pics would help. I think you're right on the C-1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 This one : is listed as a '65 Gibson C-1. And this one is a '66 C-0 Gibson classical: The logo looks right to me, so it's a matter of sorting out the number as a FON or a srial number, and matching the features with greater precision to nail down the year. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsLoud Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Yes thats the C-1. Almost positive its a 1967. The serial shows that and thats when my father said he thinks he bought it. The 1 I'm more concerned with is the 1 that was my grandfathers. My uncle has it at the moment but as soon as I get it back I'll take some detailed pics and post them. Everything I can find on "273p" comes back to a 1903. 273P is the only # I can find on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 How come they used, or did they use , a different label on Gibson classicals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsLoud Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 OK finally an update with pics. This is the guitar I mentioned in the OP that was my grandfathers: As you can see Gibson is written very differently. The only number I can find at all on this guitar is 273p. from the research I have done all I can find is it was supposedly made in Kalamazoo,MI. in 1903. Any ideas what model this is and if it really is from 1903? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 OK finally an update with pics. This is the guitar I mentioned in the OP that was my grandfathers: As you can see Gibson is written very differently. The only number I can find at all on this guitar is 273p. from the research I have done all I can find is it was supposedly made in Kalamazoo,MI. in 1903. Any ideas what model this is and if it really is from 1903? Want to sell it? I think it's a pre-war J45. Looks to be in pretty good shape. Spend 50 bucks and get an on line appraisal from Gruhn's guitars. You'll be glad you did. Def NOT 1903. I'm thinking early 40s but someone here will know better. Very nice and very special. You've got a winner there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsLoud Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Want to sell it? I think it's a pre-war J45. Looks to be in pretty good shape. Spend 50 bucks and get an on line appraisal from Gruhn's guitars. You'll be glad you did. Def NOT 1903. I'm thinking early 40s but someone here will know better. Very nice and very special. You've got a winner there. Nah I'd doubt it will ever be out of my family.1 day I will pass it down to my daughter, along with the others. I also thought it looked like a J-45. I'd love to know exactly what year it is though. Thanks for the reply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsLoud Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 Ok a clarification. There is a number inside the soundhole on the neckblock. I think this is a FON ( right?) The number is not 273p as I stated earlier it is 2730. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 It was certainly made in Kalamazoo, but certainly not in 1903. More like 1943. If you have inherited this guitar from your grandfather you are a very lucky person, and you should cherish this instrument more than any other you possess. Get serious insurance on it. It appears to be a genuine wartime era banner J45. While there are many different preferences among members of this forum, most of us would agree that a banner J45 is just about the most desirable Gibson acoustic out there. Well, OK, some of us would rather have a Southern Jumbo or an L series from the same period, but the banner J45 is the most iconic Gibson guitar from the most legendary period of the company's acoustic production. Even the Hummingbird fans and SJ 200 lovers would probably admit that this is the icon of the Gibson acoustic world. Not necessarily the most valuable, but the yardstick if you like. The Gibson round-shouldered dreadnought body shape didn't exist before 1934, and the J45 as we basically know it now dates from 1942. The script logo or scroll as you put it ran from 1942 to 1946. Bob Dylan's main guitar on his first two albums had one. The 'Only a Gibson is good enough' banner (whence the terms 'banner J45', 'banner Gibson', 'banner era', etc.) ran from 1942 to 1945. The banner is itself an icon, and the phrase it carries is Gibson's most celebrated marketing device. The current Bozeman, Montana factory has revived this logo design for certain of its instruments since the 1990s. Quite a number of the present range carry it (I just took delivery of one of them this week). But the new ones are shinier and a bit less angled than the original that you have. Given that your grandfather's instrument has a truss-rod cover, it presumably has a truss-rod. If my memory serves me well, this would actually most likely rule out my flip remark about 1943, since that was the year when truss-rods disappeared from most Gibson necks due to wartime steel shortages. To compensate, the company fitted really heavy baseball-bat necks. That would make your heirloom more likely a 1942 or 1945. But Gibson are well known for producing highly individual instruments with specs that don't quite fit their own usual run. So it is hard to tell. I am no historian of vintage Gibsons, I'm just telling you what many others here can tell you. Hopefully the really knowledgeable members will chip in now and give you the real low-down based on the specs. I can't make out the top wood. It may help others if you can tell them whether it is spruce (nearest to standard even in a wartime model, I think), maple or mahogany (which to my eyes it could be). Spruce shortages led Gibson to try out all sorts of combinations at that time. I recommend that you check out the following site: John Thomas and Willi Henkes. The authors are the authorities on banner Gibsons. John Thomas is a member of this forum, but he gave up posting around New Year. Perhaps your find might entice him to return. His input is fascinating and much missed. I might PM him and get him to have a look. Everybody here will be mightily jealous, but very pleased for you too. Guard that guitar with your life. But play it too - it may be an icon, but it's a sonic icon first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 More basic info here: My link Yes the number inside the guitar is an FON. From the info here, my best guess is mid-1944. 27xx series appear to be from that year. Return of the truss rod too. If you've got a 2-piece spruce top that would fit too, but so would a mahogany top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 I recommend that you check out the following site: John Thomas and Willi Henkes. The authors are the authorities on banner Gibsons. +1 There's another J-45 from that same batch in the Registry. John and Willi can probably give you an exact year for the guitar -- as will the rest of us once their now-in-press book is available -- but, for now, figure it's a 1944±1 and you'll be pretty safe. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsLoud Posted May 5, 2011 Author Share Posted May 5, 2011 More basic info here: My link Yes the number inside the guitar is an FON. From the info here, my best guess is mid-1944. 27xx series appear to be from that year. Return of the truss rod too. If you've got a 2-piece spruce top that would fit too, but so would a mahogany top. Thanks a lot for the reply. Just what I was looking for. I'm browsing BannerGibsons.com right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Why did John Thomas give up posting around New Year? He was a significant asset here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson101 Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Wow that is fantastic!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsLoud Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 I e mailed John Thomas earlier this evening and send pics and I just received an e mail back from him. It is indeed a 1943 J-45. Thanks to everyone who replied and got me on the right track about getting info on this guitar. I really appreciate it. Myself, I have been playing for 25 years. I got my 1st Gibson (an Invader) when I was 13 and still have it ( with Seymour Duncan pick ups). The only thing wrong with the J-45 is due to being stored or age or both the glue that holds the fretboard to the neck is gone from around the 1st to 3rd fret and the fretboard is a little loose in that area. Should be an easy fix though. I really want to get this repaired and play this guitar. Anyways, thanks again for all the info and help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Why did John Thomas give up posting around New Year? He was a significant asset here.... Remember that thread which turned just a little bit poisonous, with somebody complaining that current members here aren't quite up to the level of their predecessors? The day the cuddly, loveable Acoustics forum transformed into the nasty Lounge for a while? Somebody moaned that certain members were posting too many videos. I understand that JT felt that those comments were directed at him. He was indeed a significant asset here, not only because he is easily the most knowledgeable member on a number of historical matters (not only on banners), but also because he is a fine fingerstylist and his videos are a pleasure to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I e mailed John Thomas earlier this evening and send pics and I just received an e mail back from him. It is indeed a 1943 J-45. Thanks to everyone who replied and got me on the right track about getting info on this guitar. I really appreciate it. Myself, I have been playing for 25 years. I got my 1st Gibson (an Invader) when I was 13 and still have it ( with Seymour Duncan pick ups). The only thing wrong with the J-45 is due to being stored or age or both the glue that holds the fretboard to the neck is gone from around the 1st to 3rd fret and the fretboard is a little loose in that area. Should be an easy fix though. I really want to get this repaired and play this guitar. Anyways, thanks again for all the info and help. Lack of play can mean neglect and deterioration for a guitar, and too much play in a busy environment puts it at risk of damage. I think if the guitar was gigged heavily by your grandfather, as your first post appears to suggest, and if it has subsequently lain dormant for a long time, then a little loosening of the fretboard is a remarkably low tally for the restoration and repair work needed. Brilliant news. Moments like your OP make this forum a real joy. Glad you've managed to get hold of JT and his expertise. He'll be adding you to his registry, then. Oh, and what is the top made of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jannusguy2 Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 Remember that thread which turned just a little bit poisonous, with somebody complaining that current members here aren't quite up to the level of their predecessors? The day the cuddly, loveable Acoustics forum transformed into the nasty Lounge for a while? Somebody moaned that certain members were posting too many videos. I understand that JT felt that those comments were directed at him. He was indeed a significant asset here, not only because he is easily the most knowledgeable member on a number of historical matters (not only on banners), but also because he is a fine fingerstylist and his videos are a pleasure to watch. I must have drifted away 'round then as I have 0 recollection of such. I'd petition JT to return daily if I thought it would help. Silliness. He is the man. Thanks for the info. Sorry for the hijack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsLoud Posted May 7, 2011 Author Share Posted May 7, 2011 Lack of play can mean neglect and deterioration for a guitar, and too much play in a busy environment puts it at risk of damage. I think if the guitar was gigged heavily by your grandfather, as your first post appears to suggest, and if it has subsequently lain dormant for a long time, then a little loosening of the fretboard is a remarkably low tally for the restoration and repair work needed. Brilliant news. Moments like your OP make this forum a real joy. Glad you've managed to get hold of JT and his expertise. He'll be adding you to his registry, then. Oh, and what is the top made of? As far as what the top is made of I have no clue. But yeah you can tell it was played heavily. The frets look like no chords or anything were played past the 4th or 5th frets, but those 1st few frets have severely worn grooves in them. Its just as you said at the 1st of this reply though. It was played heavily for quite awhile and then probably not touched for I'm going to guess 40 or more years. My grandfather died in 1990. I was born in 1974 and I never remembered seeing in until after he died. There was a pick-up mounted just below the bridge at 1 time. I've seen a picture my grandmother had years ago and the pick-up was there in those pics. There are 2 very small holes left from that. But yeah for as long as it sat untouched it in fairly decent shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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