powerwagonjohn Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 I got a partial response from Gibson customer service on my search for the history of the L-4CES reissue guitars. I also found some information in Vintage Guitar price guide. Here is what I have found out for those that are curious. The L-4CES reissues or should I say Historic Reissues were introduced in 1986 with laminated mahogany back and sides that I would guess was the same as some of the ES175 put out at that time and were made that way through 1993. The L-4CES guitars made from 1994 through 2003 were made with laminated maple back and sides, again like the ES175 guitars. In 2004 and through current production the guitars are/were made with solid carved mahogany back and solid mahogany sides. The tops were all solid carved spruce [sitka], the laminated backs were pressed while solid mahogany backs were carved. I believe the carving was a combination of machine carving and hand finishing. This information is only as accurate as the various sources I have found and I have found some conflicting information. I am still awaiting more information from Gibson and with out there official input, which we are sorely lacking, this is as much as I have been able to find out. I would be very interested to find out more details about these guitars and hear first hand about how they are built. I know Gibson will not release production totals but it would be interesting to know how long these take to build and how much hand work is really involved in these works of art! I do hope there will be additional information posted here and any corrections to the information I have found. I would be very interested in any comparisons anyone has between the various types of L-4CES guitars. I really enjoy my 2009 L-4CES and it will be with me as long as I can play! Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Can't really help you. I own a 2006 L4 CES mahogany. Great guitar but I've changed the pickups as I found the sound to be too thin and overly bright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerwagonjohn Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share Posted June 17, 2011 What pick ups did you change to? I find my L-4 nicely ballanced and with good tone but I am thinking of trying a wood bridge in place of the ABR-1 to see what the change would sound like. Anyone else out there playing an L-4CES and have comments? Especially the sound differences of the different models? By the way I never did hear back from Gibson. Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albert Posted June 18, 2011 Share Posted June 18, 2011 I've had a 2003 maple L4-CES for seven years and love it. I'm just a casual jazz player, mostly a rocker, but I'm a tone freak and know good tone when I hear it. My L4, as would be expected with a maple body and solid-spruce top, is inherently bright, but I turn down the tone (and sometimes volume) controls, and get a great jazz tone, with more definition than an ES-175 and more midrange emphasis than an L5-CES. I've never played any other L4, so I can't make comparisons, although I would imagine a mahogany one would be warmer, maybe with less definition in the bass octaves. I prefer maple to mahogany acoustic guitars. And with maple you get the extra bonus of the gorgeous figured sides and back. (I'm posting a photo, but I'm afraid it may be so small you can't see the figure unless you click on the photo to enlarge it. This board seems to shrink the size of the photo in the post, and I don't know how to fix that, nor do I want to take a lot of time to mess with it.) I would wonder if a solid-body L4 would be more prone to feedback. One rationale for using the laminated wood in semi-acoustic guitars, whether an ES or a J-160E, is to reduce feedback, although that also diminishes the acoustic tone of these instruments. I had read several L4 players' praise of switching to a wooden bridge, and was considering that. It proved very hard to find an ebony saddle that would retrofit to the ABR posts, and probably would have involved having one custom made. After listening to various recordings, I realized that I probably prefer the tone that ABR-equipped guitars have. I think a wooden saddle might give a woodier, more acoustic tone, but I don't think I would prefer that myself. I like the tone of Wes Montgomery and Kenny Burrell, and I believe they mostly used the ABR saddles, but I'm not sure. Of course, their guitars were mostly big, 25.5"-scale, solid-maple (neck included), top-of-the-line models, and Wes' use of his right-hand thumb had a lot to do with his tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerwagonjohn Posted July 1, 2011 Author Share Posted July 1, 2011 Albert, nice looking guitar, your correct about the mahogany is much darker sounding guitar that the L-5 or Super 400's I have played. Your comments intrigue me and I will keep looking for a maple bodied L-4CES to test out. I really like the smaller size of the L-4CES and not so overwhelming as a bigger guitar. I find I play it acoustically half the time but when I plug it in it always blows me away. I have never regretted buying this guitar, even at the cost. It's really my #1 guitar but I have to be serious about playing to pull it out as it does take more concentration to play than some of my other guitars. I usually play the L-4CES at home by myself. If I play with others I will grab my Guild X-170 which is a great guitar itself and handles the feedback much better. I have played a couple straight L-4[non electric], one was a 1960's model and the other was a 1950's model and both sounded great. By the way if I remember correctly the 1960's model had a mahogany back and sides, but I am not sure if it was solid wood back and sides. Probably not since some of the ES175's of that period were laminated mahogany. I have been considering the switch to a wood bridge and am following Larry's progress. Thanks for your comments as I think these are very special guitars. Thanks John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 What pick ups did you change to? I find my L-4 nicely ballanced and with good tone but I am thinking of trying a wood bridge in place of the ABR-1 to see what the change would sound like. Anyone else out there playing an L-4CES and have comments? Especially the sound differences of the different models? By the way I never did hear back from Gibson. Thanks John Hi, I changed to Benedetto A6's for both the bridge and neck. I really like the sound and I don't have to back the treble right off any more. They look the same and I kept the '57 Classics just in case I ever decide to sell the guitar. However I can't see myself ever wanting to sell it. I would consider putting a TonePro locking bridge in as I did this to my Herb Ellis ES165 and it has really improved the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I have been considering the switch to a wood bridge and am following Larry's progress. Project completed, and I couldn't be happier. As my Big Band is on summer break, I won't really get to smoke-test it until we start rehearsals back up in early August. I will try to file a final report this weekend, keep an eye on that thread. AlanC - I've also considered switching out the pickups in my L-5 to one of the Benedetto/Duncan models since I am so happy with the S-6 that I put on my L-7. I'm not sure whether I would go with the A-6 or the "B" series. Maybe something to consider for this winter's, or next summer's, band break. If I keep tinkering with my L-5, there won't be any Gibson left on it except body and neck wood, and the paint job. Don't you just love a big fat archtop....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanC Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 Project completed, and I couldn't be happier. As my Big Band is on summer break, I won't really get to smoke-test it until we start rehearsals back up in early August. I will try to file a final report this weekend, keep an eye on that thread. AlanC - I've also considered switching out the pickups in my L-5 to one of the Benedetto/Duncan models since I am so happy with the S-6 that I put on my L-7. I'm not sure whether I would go with the A-6 or the "B" series. Maybe something to consider for this winter's, or next summer's, band break. If I keep tinkering with my L-5, there won't be any Gibson left on it except body and neck wood, and the paint job. Don't you just love a big fat archtop....... Hi L5Larry, The starting point for me is that each guitar has its own unique sound and I try to play the guitars for long enough to understand their unique sound before I consider any alterations. However if I have to work too hard to get even a reasonable sound and if I have to cut the tone off too much to get a sound that I like, then I start working on what I might do. Also the tone of a guitar can seem to be different on different days, in different rooms/environments and sometimes If I play for a few hours, I can start to dislike the sound over the time - maybe I just get bored with it. It's hard to explain. The Benedetto/Duncan A6's work really well on my L4CES and right from when I first I owned that guitar I didn't like the '57 Classics at all. However I have put a Benedetto/Duncan B6 into my ES175SP and I really enjoy the sound from that guitar. To be honest the '57 Classic in the 175 was OK, it just didn't sound particularly interesting or distinctive. The B6 does and at the moment I prefer the 175 with the B6! I haven't touched my L5 pickups as I really like its tone 'as is' and I can easily find the tone that I want. Overall I think the B6 sound is really worth trying as it provides such a good distinctive jazz tone with real character. And I agree I just love the sound of a big fat Archtop. Interestingly I own an 2004 L10 Chet Atkins which is just an acoustic. However I also love its unique sound. A great jazz guitar. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Giablo Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I am considering the purchase of a 2005 L-4 CES Mahogany. El G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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