Guitar Saloon Posted April 30, 2011 Share Posted April 30, 2011 Just posted some new pics of this beauty on our Facebook page. I'd love to hear from current or past owners of this model of guitar. Thanks! GBG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 I saw one of those the other day. It looked interesting but I didn't have time to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 Nice guitars GBG, a friend of mine has two, a 65 and a 66. Incidently your one on ebay is a 66 too! serial number batch 420000-438922 is 66. The other tell tale sign that Your Caballero is post 62 is the shape of the h/stock, the hourglass shape came into being during 63. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Saloon Posted May 1, 2011 Author Share Posted May 1, 2011 Thanks Steve - where did you find the serial number correction - I've seen so many lists I can't keep track ;) I'll make the change on eBay as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Thanks Steve - where did you find the serial number correction - I've seen so many lists I can't keep track ;) I'll make the change on eBay as well. I have Walter Carter`s book "Epiphone the complete history", which is not completely accurate, particularly with regard to Japanese production in the late 70`s early 80`s, but is bang on the money regarding serial numbers. In the case of your Caballero, it was the details that gave the game away, apart from the hourglass h/stock starting in 63, the style of raised logo Epsilon "E" on the pickguard started in 66, prior to that Epiphones carried a foil "E". You also mentioned the narrow nut, and from around about the mid 60`s nut width started to get quite narrow on all Epiphone guitars (Although there are exceptions). My 62 Texan is 1 and 11/16ths at the top nut, while during 63 you started to see 1 and 5/8ths starting to appear, and by 66 even 1 and a half inch. My friends 65 is 1 and 5/8ths, but his 66 is 1 and 9/16ths! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Saloon Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 I have Walter Carter`s book "Epiphone the complete history", which is not completely accurate, particularly with regard to Japanese production in the late 70`s early 80`s, but is bang on the money regarding serial numbers. In the case of your Caballero, it was the details that gave the game away, apart from the hourglass h/stock starting in 63, the style of raised logo Epsilon "E" on the pickguard started in 66, prior to that Epiphones carried a foil "E". You also mentioned the narrow nut, and from around about the mid 60`s nut width started to get quite narrow on all Epiphone guitars (Although there are exceptions). My 62 Texan is 1 and 11/16ths at the top nut, while during 63 you started to see 1 and 5/8ths starting to appear, and by 66 even 1 and a half inch. My friends 65 is 1 and 5/8ths, but his 66 is 1 and 9/16ths! Steve. Thanks great information Steve - thank you very much for your help. I was curious about the black on the heel - is that a standard feature? I have not noticed it on others that I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship of fools Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 Sorry Frenchie but it is a 1961-62 Caballero in 63 the saddles were replaced with adjustable saddles and in late 61 /62 the pickguards were also replaced with the non lettered ( E ) pickguard the book you referred to has some of the serial number slighly off. Refrence from the blue book of Acosutic guitars." The FT-30 was renamed the Caballero by Gbson in 1958.Mfg 1958-1970. In 1958 the tortise pickguard with logo was introduced. In 1961 the non-logo pickguard replaced the original part/design. In 1963, adjustable saddle replaced original part/design. " You can see here how in 1963 and after a lot of the guitars were made with the adjustable saddle. ship By the way the price he has it at right now is at least $200.00 less then its market value and great deal and price for a good looking instrument and a great way to get into the vintage market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Saloon Posted May 2, 2011 Author Share Posted May 2, 2011 While we sort this out I'm going to end the ebay listing - I don't want to represent something that I'm not sure of -Keep the comments coming folks I really appreciate it - this is a great learning experience for all early epi acoustic lovers ! I have a bunch of pics on the facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Guitar-Buyer-Guide/174173895968452 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Sorry Frenchie but it is a 1961-62 Caballero in 63 the saddles were replaced with adjustable saddles and in late 61 /62 the pickguards were also replaced with the non lettered ( E ) pickguard the book you referred to has some of the serial number slighly off. Refrence from the blue book of Acosutic guitars." The FT-30 was renamed the Caballero by Gbson in 1958.Mfg 1958-1970. In 1958 the tortise pickguard with logo was introduced. In 1961 the non-logo pickguard replaced the original part/design. In 1963, adjustable saddle replaced original part/design. " You can see here how in 1963 and after a lot of the guitars were made with the adjustable saddle. ship By the way the price he has it at right now is at least $200.00 less then its market value and great deal and price for a good looking instrument and a great way to get into the vintage market No ship it is a 66! Haven`t got a clue about this "Non logo" pickguard business, Epiphones carried the "E" throughout the 60`s on most models (Including the Caballero, but not on the fancy guarded Excellente/Frontier models) with the only change being that they switched from a Foil E to a raised plastic one in 66! If what you say is correct why does the catalogue photo you posted contradict your comments, there you see adjustable saddles and logo`d pickguards (On both the Bard 12 string and Eldorado models). what may have thrown you, is that the Caballero being an economy model didn`t come with the adjustable saddle, look closer at the specs for the Caballero and it says in that ctalogue photo "Non ADJ". Here is my 1962 Texan, it has a five digit serial, notice the adjustable saddle, that actually started in 62 for Epiphone Texans (In 63/64 a lot of these saddles were found on plastic bridges!). Both of my friends Caballeros (65/66) have plastic bridges but non adjustable saddles. Check out the headstock, this was the shape Epiphone used up until 1963, which is when they changed to the hourglass shaped one that we are all familiar with. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship of fools Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Hey Frenchie I would like to say that your points are well taken and its very possible that I have made a mistake ( I try not to but once in a while things happen and I do make a mistake ). I do know that there are a thing or two that still makes me wonder such as the logo E on the pickguard ( should not be there so could be a later replacement )so I hope that you can see how I was mistaken in sayig you were wrong. I did go back and look at the old catalogues and see that there never was a adjustable bridge for them so I bow to your wisdom here and hope that you can see how I made my mistakes. My 59 Caballero did not have a logo on the pickguard, unfortunatey my old photo's are no longer available to show you mine was just plain. Hey GBG hope that you re-list soon and I am sorry for any inconviencance to you I would list it at 1966 as Frenchie is correct here and I am not.ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted May 3, 2011 Share Posted May 3, 2011 Hey Frenchie I would like to say that your points are well taken and its very possible that I have made a mistake ( I try not to but once in a while things happen and I do make a mistake ). I do know that there are a thing or two that still makes me wonder such as the logo E on the pickguard ( should not be there so could be a later replacement )so I hope that you can see how I was mistaken in sayig you were wrong. I did go back and look at the old catalogues and see that there never was a adjustable bridge for them so I bow to your wisdom here and hope that you can see how I made my mistakes. My 59 Caballero did not have a logo on the pickguard, unfortunatey my old photo's are no longer available to show you mine was just plain. Hey GBG hope that you re-list soon and I am sorry for any inconviencance to you I would list it at 1966 as Frenchie is correct here and I am not.ship Thanks Ship, that`s very big of you, we all make mistakes none more so than me. As for the pickguard "E", they were/are notorious for falling off, which is why you see a lot of them missing on the vintage guitars. My friend Marcus`s 65 caballero has a foil "E", but his 66 doesn`t have one at all, although you can just make out a faint outline where it should have been. Here is page 8 of the 66 catalogue, please bear in mind the photo was taken in 65, before the change to the raised plastic pickguard "E", notice the Frontier now has the usual pickguard instead of the fancy one and consequently gets an "E", and check out the Caballero over on the right, http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/epiphone66p8.php Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Saloon Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 Back in town and re-listed for sale on ebay ... as a 1966 ;) Thank you both for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Saloon Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Back on eBay - this time as an auction with $200 starting bid and no reserve. Go Get 'Em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship of fools Posted June 13, 2011 Share Posted June 13, 2011 Only 14 hours to go and its still a steal one thing I did find out was the black was added by someone else, not part of the factory and it might have had a neck reset once before as I have seen a few others done like that after the reset.ship I can't believe the other FT-30 on Ebay wants as much as he is asking in such poorer shape, go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Saloon Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 Wow if that is not factory original they did an amazing job because I have literally been over it with a mag glass and it is perfect. same with the finish. anyway, it looks cool and it plays great so thats the main thing. I agree on the price is cheap but we'll see - sometimes they take off in the last few seconds. I just hope she goes to a good home ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Saloon Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share Posted June 20, 2011 French buyer would not pay shipping costs. No response from my second place buyer. So ... here we go again. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130535990146&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT#ht_14020wt_1196 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship of fools Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Boy that really sucks why on gods green earth would he even bother to bid, hope you got E-bay involved in that one. Well here's to hoping this one goes better then the last.ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted June 20, 2011 Share Posted June 20, 2011 Ship - Re your referencing the Blue Book of Guitars, in earlier years, errors were numerous. Haven't used it in a long time, but I'd cast a questioning eye at anything they say. I'm sure they're trying to do a good job & are improving all the time, but their info needs to be checked. In fact, I wrote them once re some glaring errors related to the Gibson B25 (Epi Cortez), a close cousin to the Caballero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ship of fools Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 You are right that there are errors in the blue book, but I never use just one resource when doing research on an unknown model or one that I rarely come across unless it is the only refrence to a particular model ( besides my memory )and when I do come across any mistakes I almost always e-mail them so by the time the next one comes out ( blue book of acoustics ) corrections can and are often made.ship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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