rct Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 I have to disagree with you a bit here RCT. It really depends on the attenuator you use and what you consider to be "Bedroom" volume. Do I know the sound of a 100 watt Tube amp pushed to the max???? hmmm let's see I currently own 2 1973 Marshall 100 Watt Super Leads, A 1976 Marshall 100 Watt Super Lead, A Marshall 50 Watt Plexi, and A MetroAmp JTM 45 I built myself and an Egnator Renegade. I also have a 69 Marshall 4/12 Cab with green Back Celestions, and 2 1976 Marshall 4/12's with 25 Watt Black Back celestions. Among other 5 to 15 Watt Tube Amps.... So yeah I know what an Amp on "Stun" sounds like. I have also used attenuators in the past I didn't care for ( THD and some others ) but currently have a Weber Mass 150 Attenuator which has a built in Speaker driver so you get more dynamic reaction than you do with a straight Resistor based Attenuator. I get a good sound at " My bedroom Level" with it... Yes, I would agree that you know what an amp on Stun sounds like, lots and lots of people do. I know what it is like to go 125 because my car can, but I do not know what it means to do 320 laps and not get killed going 125, right? So if you've stomped around in front of a bunch of speakers, trying to above all keep yer guitar quiet during the lovey dovey parts of your KlassiK RoK opus all while pushing a couple Sound City heads or Marshalls or Ampeg or whatever into nearly nothing-but-feedback, you know that using an attenuator is not ever going to get you in that interaction between guitar player, guitar, and amp area that is the most important part of all of that posing. So a guitar player looking to cop that arena sound and feel isn't going to while using an attenuator. That's my experience. I also use a Palmer PDI-03 for recording or going direct to PA and it sounds great. A lot of guys are using these in there live Rigs ( Joe Bonamassa, Eddie Van Halen etc... ) Yeah, speaker simulator, DI, that's different. Almost all amps have DI out on them these days, not so unusual anymore. Not long ago it was harder to do. Attenuators can sound like garbage if you don't find one that really works with your amp well. There's my 2 Cents.... A good 2 cents it is. Original poster spoke of getting an attenuator because he absolutely needs it in his home environment. In my experience, that is always a fail. If you can't drive an amp in yer home, you can't drive an amp. So all of those things that come from a driven amp aren't going to happen. You'll have a very distorted low volume, prolly mushy/muddy sounding amp, and not much else. That's my experience, doesn't make it so for everyone. One caveat should be that since watching my own two Sound Citys and quite a few acquaintances Marshalls ooze oil in them Power Soak days, I haven't messed with them outside of the one in my Princeton Recording ampliphone, and it's pretty much a toy. Remember, we were replacing master volumes with them back then, driving an amp all the way up to get it to break, with the attenuator about half way up, so we could play in bars. Funny. You can play a 5000 seat venue with that volume today! Anyway, I am probably not at all qualified to discuss current technology for them things, since we all thought Eddie was wicked sramt using a 120volt dimmer for an early version of an attenuator I'm prolly not up to snuff on what they are doing these days. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 It's the V1 ECC83 I guess on its way out, its not going microphonic but it does have some tube noise, after doing some digging into the JJ ECC83, apparently its one of the highest gain 12AX7 tube on the market which is an upside but it has a lower then average threshold for noise. I mucked around with the settings on my amp and drew back the gain to like 2.5 and cranked the volume to 10 to try and go with power tube distortion but there wasnt enough gain and turning up anymore put me into the red zone for sound with the neighbors. I dont absolutely needed an attenuator, I just figured it would be a good route to go so I could turn up my amp louder, try and push the power tubes into distorting rather then the preamp tubes, I dont mind cranking my amp but when it means I am going to get evicted and be living on the streets yeah I think I can of good reasons to try anything to keep me smiling and the idiot neighbors smiling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 It's the V1 ECC83 I guess on its way out, its not going microphonic but it does have some tube noise, after doing some digging into the JJ ECC83, apparently its one of the highest gain 12AX7 tube on the market which is an upside but it has a lower then average threshold for noise. I mucked around with the settings on my amp and drew back the gain to like 2.5 and cranked the volume to 10 to try and go with power tube distortion but there wasnt enough gain and turning up anymore put me into the red zone for sound with the neighbors. I dont absolutely needed an attenuator, I just figured it would be a good route to go so I could turn up my amp louder, try and push the power tubes into distorting rather then the preamp tubes, I dont mind cranking my amp but when it means I am going to get evicted and be living on the streets yeah I think I can of good reasons to try anything to keep me smiling and the idiot neighbors smiling. So...did you get it fixed? Was it a bad tube or just a noisier tube than normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 So...did you get it fixed? Was it a bad tube or just a noisier tube than normal? Just a bit noisier then normal, so its all good, I am guessing could be in part to the high gain of the tube. The amp sat on L&M's show floor for about a week so I don't know who did what to it then, but I got a WAY better deal on it then waiting for one in the box, a new JJ is like $10 so hopefully before the weekend I can pick one up and swap it out. Just running the amp with the gain at 2-3ish and the Volume dimed, sounds great but not super dirty so the OD pedal is getting its use. On a side note with this setting I really like how the Fullb0re sounds through it, less Line6-ey and more normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Yes, I would agree that you know what an amp on Stun sounds like, lots and lots of people do. I know what it is like to go 125 because my car can, but I do not know what it means to do 320 laps and not get killed going 125, right? So if you've stomped around in front of a bunch of speakers, trying to above all keep yer guitar quiet during the lovey dovey parts of your KlassiK RoK opus all while pushing a couple Sound City heads or Marshalls or Ampeg or whatever into nearly nothing-but-feedback, you know that using an attenuator is not ever going to get you in that interaction between guitar player, guitar, and amp area that is the most important part of all of that posing. So a guitar player looking to cop that arena sound and feel isn't going to while using an attenuator. That's my experience. Yeah, speaker simulator, DI, that's different. Almost all amps have DI out on them these days, not so unusual anymore. Not long ago it was harder to do. A good 2 cents it is. Original poster spoke of getting an attenuator because he absolutely needs it in his home environment. In my experience, that is always a fail. If you can't drive an amp in yer home, you can't drive an amp. So all of those things that come from a driven amp aren't going to happen. You'll have a very distorted low volume, prolly mushy/muddy sounding amp, and not much else. That's my experience, doesn't make it so for everyone. One caveat should be that since watching my own two Sound Citys and quite a few acquaintances Marshalls ooze oil in them Power Soak days, I haven't messed with them outside of the one in my Princeton Recording ampliphone, and it's pretty much a toy. Remember, we were replacing master volumes with them back then, driving an amp all the way up to get it to break, with the attenuator about half way up, so we could play in bars. Funny. You can play a 5000 seat venue with that volume today! Anyway, I am probably not at all qualified to discuss current technology for them things, since we all thought Eddie was wicked sramt using a 120volt dimmer for an early version of an attenuator I'm prolly not up to snuff on what they are doing these days. rct I too was an "EVH" tone chaser. I pretty much have most every "original"/Correct effect/EQ/echoplex etc... He used back in the day. Excluding the 68/9 Marshall But my 73's are configured the same as a 68 minus laydown transformer. I tried all kinds of combinations of attenuators, echoplex, tubes, signal paths yadda yadda..... Got close but eventually realized that the tone I like is the "Recorded" sound which ( if isolated out of the mix) is WAY too bright/shrill to be in the same room with. Also realized I ain't Eddie, and don't want to play Eddie style all the time so I ended my quest there... BTW He also used a power soak along with the 120 V dimmer and the Variac. Probably after he smoked a few OT's Anyway there a billion threads on that beat up topic..... No back to the off topic... topic. No you will never get the "Roar" Of having 8 or 16 12" speakers pushing air as hard as they can by using an attenuator. But you can get maxed power tube tone/distortion with nice feedback and sustain at a volume that won't make your great grand chidrens ears ring. Like I said before it depends on what you consider "Bedroom" or " Non- Eviction Level" After playing Non-master 50 and 100 Watters for years my definition of low volume is probably a lot different than others. :blink: When the tinnitus got so bad it started to make me feel sick I decided I better start finding another way I tried low wattage amps cranked, pre phase inverter Master Volumes, Post phase Inverter Master Volumes, Pre and Post Phase Inverter master volumes, high wattage amps attenuated, Re- amping You name it. I found 3 things that work pretty well. A Weber Mass 150 Attenuator with "speaker motor", The Palmer PDI-03 re-amped and my very favorite.... The JTM 45 cranked ...... Ahhhhhh Perfection! I wouldn't say it would qualify for Bedroom or Non-eviction volume ( That's why I bought a house in the middle of nowhere) but it isn't ear ringing loud either. Just loud enough to get above the drums and Sweeeeeeeeeeeet ! I may have to post and go back and play a bit now that I'm thinking about it. He He Regards, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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