electricley Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Hi guys, I live in South Africa,I have been playing guitar for many years as a novice.My first guitar was a Hoyer, a copy of a LP. Not bad a guitar, just very dark sounding. I imagine it is because of the round bridge pieces. I met a guy, intensely intelligent who had a guitar that he could not play, the action was very high and the neck bowed forward. It had a Gibson name.I took it from him and spent a week on the guitar trying to improve it.On returning the guitar to him, he was ecstatic with it, phoned me 100 times saying how wonderful it was to play it again. I sometimes would go play at his place( he had 4 guitars 1) 94 Jap Strat 2)68 Epiphone riviera 3)65F Fender 4)Gibson Les Paul Approx 53. I hadnt played with him for about a year.He died suddenly from a stroke. His guitars were appraised by an attorney in the know and were classified as being fake.I was offered the guitars, bought them all for about us$600. have researched the LP. It seems it was gold coloured, but now wood.The headstock had been broken a long time ago pre 70 It has the 53 logo, no neck binding,52 maybe and a 54 body, no routering to the tail-stop. The tail-stop was moved further back, about an inch further than normal by the luthier of the day, probably in ignorance during the 70's.I will try to post pictures of the guit so you guys can give input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 If you can, please post some photos of the Epiphone Riviera also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricley Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 If you can, please post some photos of the Epiphone Riviera also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricley Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricley Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 Hi there, I have put a photo on the forum of the gibson, but am finding it difficult to put a photo of the epiphone, but will see if I can do it by answering again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 I'm starting to thing that Attorney is correct. The logo on the headstock looks fake, it's too low on the headstock. If the headstock was broken, chances are it would be where it joins the neck, which means the "Les Paul Model" silkscreen would still be there. Not to mention no binding on the neck, and yet binding on the body. It doesn't line up man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricley Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 I'm starting to thing that Attorney is correct. The logo on the headstock looks fake, it's too low on the headstock. If the headstock was broken, chances are it would be where it joins the neck, which means the "Les Paul Model" silkscreen would still be there. Not to mention no binding on the neck, and yet binding on the body. It doesn't line up man. What I have done is look carefully at the head-stock of the earlier models, they are lower than normal, meaning that 54 and up is higher, and 70's are higher still. The 53 in particular with the single tail-stop looks identical when compared at the correct angle, this photo does distort the view somewhat. I have compared some the other aspects of this guitar with guitars on the net, and it seems a lot of it is genuine. There is a spot of gold paint inside the pickup cavity, which tends towards green.These were apparently gold when released onto the market. It seems to have been refinished and somewhat messed up. It plays well, and numerous luthiers view it with interest and have offered to purchase, but it is different hey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Well, it took me awhile to notice it (I'm not a solidbody expert), but I think I see something significant. At either end of the current bridge, I see what appear to be filled-in holes from previous tailpiece studs. A line connecting these filled-in holes would be slightly diagonal, which suggests that this might indeed be an original early Les Paul body, of the type that was fitted with a diagonal bar/bridge tailpiece: Obviously, your guitar has been heavily modified, so if in fact the body is original, I'm not sure what it would be worth in this condition. Not sure yet about the neck... Still no photos of the Epiphone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 This LP looks genuine to me, for a number of reasons: Mainly, the headstock shape and logo look correct, as does the rest of the shape of the guitar for a VERY early LP. These are not often copied, and furthermore, would be very unlikely to be copied correctly while at the same time the other details as the location of the tailpiece being so wrong. The off-set seam in the top is also consistant with what SHOULD be found under many Gold-tops, and you would also expect the wrong shape (wider) pup rings on a guitar modded from P-90's. It is highly unlikely that the neck is from one guitar and the body from another. There would be few explanations. It does seem likely that the guitar was highly modded at a time when they weren't worth much and it would'nt have been a loss to do such. It makes sense that someone would set to "improve" a gold-top. There are a couple interesting things about this guitar: there is no neck binding. Now, the very FIRST LP's, some had no neck binding, as well as some variations pickup mounting, and black pup covers. Obviously before they settled on the exact specs of the guitar and how to mount the pups. I mention this because by the time the stop-tail was even invented as a bridge, there would be no LP's without bindind on the neck. LP's without neck binding are rare enough, but should not be found with a stop-bar bridge. I would look for evidence of the trapeze bridge being mounted, and possibly either the stop-bar bridge being added in between what we have here. I would also check the pup cavities to see if any of the holes for p-90 mounts still exist and if there are holes in different places. If you find these, it would surely authenticate it as an orogonal forst-run/prototype LP. Won't help the value much, but it would be interesting. You might also go back and look for old parts at the guys house, if they are still there. They might exceed the value of the guitar...even exceed the value of a typical '52. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricley Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 This LP looks genuine to me, for a number of reasons: Mainly, the headstock shape and logo look correct, as does the rest of the shape of the guitar for a VERY early LP. These are not often copied, and furthermore, would be very unlikely to be copied correctly while at the same time the other details as the location of the tailpiece being so wrong. The off-set seam in the top is also consistant with what SHOULD be found under many Gold-tops, and you would also expect the wrong shape (wider) pup rings on a guitar modded from P-90's. It is highly unlikely that the neck is from one guitar and the body from another. There would be few explanations. It does seem likely that the guitar was highly modded at a time when they weren't worth much and it would'nt have been a loss to do such. It makes sense that someone would set to "improve" a gold-top. There are a couple interesting things about this guitar: there is no neck binding. Now, the very FIRST LP's, some had no neck binding, as well as some variations pickup mounting, and black pup covers. Obviously before they settled on the exact specs of the guitar and how to mount the pups. I mention this because by the time the stop-tail was even invented as a bridge, there would be no LP's without bindind on the neck. LP's without neck binding are rare enough, but should not be found with a stop-bar bridge. I would look for evidence of the trapeze bridge being mounted, and possibly either the stop-bar bridge being added in between what we have here. I would also check the pup cavities to see if any of the holes for p-90 mounts still exist and if there are holes in different places. If you find these, it would surely authenticate it as an orogonal forst-run/prototype LP. Won't help the value much, but it would be interesting. You might also go back and look for old parts at the guys house, if they are still there. They might exceed the value of the guitar...even exceed the value of a typical '52. Have very little in the line bytes for uploading photos, but here is the epi. Thanks for the input so far guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Thanks. That does appear at first glance to be a '68 Epiphone, but it looks like a Casino model, not a Riviera. The Riviera (semi-hollow body) had mini-humbucking pickups, whereas the Casino (fully hollow body) had P-90's, as pictured. Nice guitar! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
electricley Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Thanks. That does appear at first glance to be a '68 Epiphone, but it looks like a Casino model, not a Riviera. The Riviera (semi-hollow body) had mini-humbucking pickups, whereas the Casino (fully hollow body) had P-90's, as pictured. Nice guitar! Thanks for informing me about that the epiphone is a casino, just that I've related the shape of the f hole to the pickup spacing, and the reach of the fingerboard/cutaway shape to that of the riviera. Complicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleinman Posted September 2, 2012 Share Posted September 2, 2012 Hi guys, I live in South Africa,I have been playing guitar for many years as a novice.My first guitar was a Hoyer, a copy of a LP. Not bad a guitar, just very dark sounding. I imagine it is because of the round bridge pieces. I met a guy, intensely intelligent who had a guitar that he could not play, the action was very high and the neck bowed forward. It had a Gibson name.I took it from him and spent a week on the guitar trying to improve it.On returning the guitar to him, he was ecstatic with it, phoned me 100 times saying how wonderful it was to play it again. I sometimes would go play at his place( he had 4 guitars 1) 94 Jap Strat 2)68 Epiphone riviera 3)65F Fender 4)Gibson Les Paul Approx 53. I hadnt played with him for about a year.He died suddenly from a stroke. His guitars were appraised by an attorney in the know and were classified as being fake.I was offered the guitars, bought them all for about us$600. have researched the LP. It seems it was gold coloured, but now wood.The headstock had been broken a long time ago pre 70 It has the 53 logo, no neck binding,52 maybe and a 54 body, no routering to the tail-stop. The tail-stop was moved further back, about an inch further than normal by the luthier of the day, probably in ignorance during the 70's.I will try to post pictures of the guit so you guys can give input. If you wish to sell this guitar please PM me. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvjnr Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Electricley. Do you still have these guitars ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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