Recommendations on upgrading pickups?

[Arcadiadiv]

I have an Wine Red Emperor Swingster with Swingbucker pick-ups (the ones that came with the guitar), which sounds fine, but I was looking at upgrading those pickups to something more. What do you guys recommend? I'm primarily making Metal, Jazz, and Rock music with a little bit of Electronic Dance mixed inside. I also use a lot of effects. I have no idea what to look for with pickups.

[Arcadiadiv]

Sorry to answer a question with a question, but what kind of amp(s) are you using? And what effects, too? It's useful to have an overall idea of where you are at present.

 

Not a problem. My Amp is a Vox VT40+ and my effects pedal is a Zoom G1NExt. I use all of the effects in some form or another (not all at once) but I favor distortion, reverb, chorus, and Auto Wah the most. Auto Wah depends on the situation.

 

I hope that's enough information.

[mcgruff]

I'm primarily making Metal, Jazz, and Rock music with a little bit of Electronic Dance mixed inside.

 

OK that narrows it down.

 

Take a look at the TV Jones, Seymour Duncan and Lindy Fralin websites for ideas. Do any of these sound interesting? First you need to figure out whether you want a humbucker, filtertron, or P90 type (Lindy Fralin P92 is a P90 in humbucker form).

[Bluemans335]

Metal on a hollowbody? Not your typical instrument for that. Let's narrow this down. If your PU's are wound too hot, they'll fedback easier, plus ceramic magnets and hollowbodies aren't a good mix, for tonal and feedback reasons. If you're using a lot of effects, you need a fairly bright, clear PU to cut thru and prevent mud. You probably don't want one with an A2 magnet (that rules out most PAF's). With that in mind, Duncan's '59 and Jazz humbuckers would be good choices. They have A5 magnets which are bright and clear, with a firm low-end.

 

There are humbucker-sized P-90's (fat single coils), most have A5 magnets. They have clear tones you would like, but the one drawback is that they have more noise/hum, which isn't noticeable when you're playing, but is when you stop (you can turn your guitar's volume down between songs). GFS makes an affordble one called the 'Mean 90' that is highly regarded on the Duncan forums (and we're notoriously picky there). A nice set up is one of these in the neck, and a humucker in the bridge, giving you more versatility in tones (I have this in an Epi 335 Dot).

 

Another thing I would recommend is wiring your guitar for independent volume controls. That allows you to blend both PU's volumes in fine increments, and gives you more tones (normally Epiphones are wired for 'dependent' volume control, which means in the middle toggle position when both PU's are on, turning down one volume control turn down both PU's). Very simple to do, there's wiring diagrams online, only takes a couple minutes. You just switch the lug on the volume pot that the toggle goes to. Looking from the bottom of the pot, the lugs are:

 

- Dependent volumes: Left - ground, Middle - hot wire from toggle, and Right - hot wires from PU and tone pot

 

- Independent volumes: Left - ground, Middle - hot wires from PU and tone pot, and Right - hot wire from toggle

[Gunner]

Arcadiadiv,

 

I have not played a Swingster, but I understand it is a full hollowbody similar to a Gretsch 5120. Based on the reviews have I read about the Swingster, people seem to be fairly happy with the stock pickups, unlike the "Gretschbuckers" that come on the 5120 which tend to be dark and muddy.

 

For that guitar I would say if you were into Rockabilly and/or were after a twangy sound, take a look at the TV Jones TV Classics (warning, they are pricey) or the GFS Surf 90's. These are both very popular upgrades for the Gretsch 5120 and 5122. I myself put the TV Classics on my 5122 and it made a huge difference. But based on the music styles you listed (especially metal), I don't think twangy humbuckers or P-90 style pickups on a hollowbody would be your cup of tea. Honestly, it's hard to give you a good recommendation because the three genres you mention beg for at least two different guitar/pickup combinations.

 

IMHO, when playing through a solid state amp and/or using a lot of digital effects (of which you are doing both), upgrading pickups that are already decent may not be that noticeable. I might suggest putting the money towards an additional guitar (either solidbody or semi-hollow if you don't already have one) or possibly a nice tube amp.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Tom

[milod]

I think a cupla the other guys kinda nailed it.

 

You have a guitar that is, in effect, almost what one might consider a niche instrument. I don't have one, but I've played one - and it's a lot like the old Gretsches. That's what it's great at being - better than the Gretsch in the same price range in part because of the pups!

 

So if you want something different, I don't think that changing pups will ever make you happy.

 

Consider a different guitar instead. There are plenty of inexpensive choices and plenty of gold-plated expensive choices that all might make you far, far happier that swapping pups on the Swingster.

 

Or... try this... don't worry about certain "tone" issues and make the huge options already available into the Swingster to make it your own sound regardless of style...

 

I can say from experience that swapping stuff around in the later '60s and '70s for various rock/country gigs was a huge waste of money and a huge loss of some marvelous instruments and amps in various swaps.

 

Don't get me wrong. I have as much GAS as anyone and I just finished (maybe) with a huge OD the past two months.

 

But it wasn't so much for tonal differences as playability "feel" differences. Think of that a bit. Frankly I've found that simply a matter of technique variation can get huge variations in tone and sound without any change in guitar or amp controls. A guitar tone is a "whole" that's greater than its parts (including amp), and IMHO, it's doggone unfortunate that so few of us think of it that way as do most classical guitarists.

 

m

[Bluemans335]

So if you want something different, I don't think that changing pups will ever make you happy.

 

 

I completely disagree. I have, and have had, many Epi's and except for the recent production ones, they all benefitted greatly from PU upgrades. The '57 Classics and other humbuckers used in the past were mediocre at best, and really limited the potential of the guitars. Putting in a set of Seymour Duncans, DiMarzios, Gibsons, Lollars, Fralins, Rio Grandes, Bare Knuckles, etc will bring out things in a Epi that you won't otherwise hear. Clarity, depth, articulation. I buy most of my PU used on eBay, usually for about half price, and do the installs myself. Not a big investment, and well worth it in the improvement in tone quality. I get compliments on my tones everytime I play onstage, from the audience and the band. Players hear me, than look at the headstocks on my Epi's and scratch their heads.

 

Even if your guitar comes with high-quality PU's, there's no guarantee that they're a good match for your guitar's individual wood characteristics, or the styles of music you're playing. There's huge variations in wood, even if cut from the same tree (grain, density, mineral content, water content, etc) and when a PU is spec'd out for a guitar model, it will sound different in many of them. There's nothing sacred about a guitar as it comes from the factory. Manufacturers make them to appeal to as many players as possible, and many people would like them better if they were tweaked to their specific needs. A tailored suit will fit better then one off the rack. Players replace PU's on Gibsons all the time, so there's no reason not to with Epi's.

 

Every guitarist is better off knowing his instrument, how to set it up, how to adjust it, and how to change pots and PU's if need be. In the process you learn what impacts tone and playability. That knowledge is of huge importance to a musician, and to be able to use that knowledge means that you are in control of your sound. You sound the way you want, and not just the way your guitar happens to sound. The more you like your tones, the more you're inspired and the better you play. Cause and effect. If music is important to you, I don't see being passive about your instruments. I'm hands on, learning and doing. My tones are so much better than they used to be, and that's impacted my playing. It's much less expensive to change a pot value or magnet, or buy a used PU or two, than it is to buy another guitar like you suggested. Why not make the one you have do what you want?

[milod]

Well...

 

I admit I'm not the brightest around here, and after 50 years I think I've likely made far more stupid mistakes with guitars and equipment than most of the folks on these forums.

 

I'm sure I'm not nearly the picker you are, nor one with as much valuable experience.

 

So... after five, six years of pickin' for money in the mid to late '60s, I went through about a decade of messin' with guitars, swapping this and that, rebuilding this and that, changing pups, changing wiring, bridges, tuning pegs, nuts, etc.

 

The Swingster and its pups are basically a factory mod of the same basic guitar as the Joe Pass with humbuckers. Why? To get more of a Gretsch-y sound. If that's not what you wanted, and not what you can live with given the controls on the guitar and amp, to me, it's probably a purchasing error in the first place. I concluded the same with my first Gretsch back around '74 or '75, so instead of changing pups and wiring, I dumped the guitar.

 

In retrospect either swapping pups or dumping the box would have been an error and I coulda used the guitar in my gigs quite easily. I sure wish I had it back in its original condition. Too soon oldt, too late schmardt.

 

I can see buying a guitar specifically as a modding project. Been there, done that. Just not a nice new Swingster or Gretsch or even another recent Epi. Well... maybe P90s on a Dot or Dot Studio... Hmmmm. But why not one of the options already there with the P90s in the first place?

 

But... it's the OP's money and your opinions, not just my guitar ignorance, so let the chips fall where they may.

 

Whatever suits you tickles me just plumb to death.

 

m

[BlackSG91]

I'm about half & half on changing pick ups. Sometimes a guitar really needs a pick up change, but if it sounds good with stock pick ups, then I would be more patient. I recently purchased a used Epiphone Les Paul Standard(2006) @ a pawn shop (my 17th guitar now) and I got this beauty at an amazing price. Another thing that surprised me were the stock pick ups which to me sounded really good. I've been playing over 25 years and I could not believe the quality of this guitar and the pick ups. When I brought it home, I set the pick up height using a steel ruler and tweaking the height as I played plugged-in. I was able to achieve the optimal sound and I could not be any happier. I spent hours dabbling with the sound and comparing to my other guitar's pick ups. The ones on my Gibson SG were definitely louder and brighter, but that doesn't mean the Epi pups were junk. Even though they did not have as much power, I was still able to get some super-sweet tones out of it. The trick is to adjust the tone & volume controls in small increments until you hit the sweet-spot. I've hit the sweet-spot with these pick ups on different amp settings many times. I might plan in the future to swap pick ups between my SG and Epi. Since the stock Epi's are similar to '57 Classics and SG players rave about the '57, these Epi pick ups might find a home in my SG while the 490's would go into the LP. I'm on a Les Paul forum and I've been reading some members comments on how amazing 490's sound in a Paul. I'm thinking it over, but I think I've made up my mind.

[Bender 4 Life]

I too use a Zoom G1NeXT....but just occasionally (maybe once a month or so) great multi for the $ !!

 

if you're looking for great "bang for your buck" p'ups i'll suggest Guitar Fetish brand Crunchy Humbuckers in either vintage or Texas winding.

they sound great clean OR dirty, and it's hard to tell them from Gibson p'ups in a "blind" test.

they cost about half the price of big name p'ups.

 

I just dropped a set into my '88 Gibson LP because they sound better than the stock Gibby p'ups.

[Bluemans335]

after five, six years of pickin' for money in the mid to late '60s, I went through about a decade of messin' with guitars, swapping this and that, rebuilding this and that, changing pups, changing wiring, bridges, tuning pegs, nuts, etc....In retrospect either swapping pups or dumping the box would have been an error and I coulda used the guitar in my gigs quite easily. I sure wish I had it back in its original condition. Too soon oldt, too late schmardt.

 

I can see buying a guitar specifically as a modding project. Been there, done that. Just not a nice new Swingster or Gretsch or even another recent Epi. Well... maybe P90s on a Dot or Dot Studio... Hmmmm. But why not one of the options already there with the P90s in the first place?

 

 

Hey, all of make mistakes, that's how we learn. I've made my share. There's a few key things to keep in mind with mods so that you don't regret them, and they don't become a black hole you throw money into. One is don't do anything that can't be undone, no drilling or cutting. Keep the parts you take off so that you can put them back on if you sell the guitar later. You usually don't get your money back when you sell an upgraded guitar. With mid-price imports like Epi's, limit most of your upgrades to PU's, as they do more to improve tone than everything else put together. Some guys get carried away and replace hardware, tuners, electronics, etc, and could have bought a Gibson for what they sink into an Epi. Accept Epi's for what they are: a good value for the money. When the money gets too high, they're no longer a good value. Don't buy an Epi that has a warped neck or needs to be refinished; you're going to lose money. The price of new Epi's is very reasonable; used ones usually go for half of that, and many are in nice condition. There's no reason to inherit someone else's expensive problems.

 

Guitarists should know how to do basic things with their instruments. I used to be at the mercy of whatever my guitar happened to sound and play like. I was helpless. Two things changed my life. One was Dan Erlewine's book 'How to make your electric guitar play great.' Pictures and text walk you thru set ups, and most things don't require prior experience or expensive tools. Easy things you can do yourself. Common sense stuff. The other thing was joining the Duncan forum, and I read threads and asked questions, and learned a lot about guitars, PU's, pots, magnets, etc. I don't pay luthiers to do anything, and I have no handyman skills what-so-ever (besides, some 'tech's don't know much more than you do). These days I always have guys asking my for advice about guitars and PU's, and 12 years ago I knew nothing. I'm no genius, anyone can learn this stuff. I share what I learn and help as many players as I can.

 

You can have a great-sounding instrument for a small cash outlay. Look at refurbs, 2nds, and used Epi's. There are many great deals out there on guitars in nice condition. Les Paul Stds and Dots for $250 to $300, and SG's for $200 or less. If you don't care for the sound of your PU's or if you have one of the old Epi's with the old PU's, look on eBay for used American-made PU's, get a couple and spend for $100 for $200 worth of PU's. Install them yourself. If you want P-90's, many manufacturers make HB-sized P-90's these days, to drop in guitars without any fitting. Buy Dan Erlewine's book and do a basic set up and get it playing just the way you like. For several hundred dollars you can have a guitar that few people could tell apart from a Gibson by sound alone. If you sell it, put the old PU's back in, and you can probably get what you paid for it. The PU's can go in a future guitar, or resold for what you paid for them if you bought them used. There's no downside to doing this; you can do it inexpensively and can afford to own more great-sounding guitars. There's no reason to lose money or regret any mods you've done.

[BlackSG91]

 

Guitarists should know how to do basic things with their instruments. I used to be at the mercy of whatever my guitar happened to sound and play like. I was helpless. Two things changed my life. One was Dan Erlewine's book 'How to make your electric guitar play great.' Pictures and text walk you thru set ups, and most things don't require prior experience or expensive tools. Easy things you can do yourself. Common sense stuff. The other thing was joining the Duncan forum, and I read threads and asked questions, and learned a lot about guitars, PU's, pots, magnets, etc. I don't pay luthiers to do anything, and I have no handyman skills what-so-ever (besides, some 'tech's don't know much more than you do). These days I always have guys asking my for advice about guitars and PU's, and 12 years ago I knew nothing. I'm no genius, anyone can learn this stuff. I share what I learn and help as many players as I can.

 

Now I remember who you are! I've conversed with you on that Duncan site, but I'm under a different username. That's a great forum and I'm glad I joined. It seems to have a lot of knowledgeable people with a bit more open-mindedness. It's one of my favourite forums. I'm on an SG forum in which another prominent member also strongly recommends that book you mentioned by Dan Erlewine. It seems like the go-to book for guitar maintenance and set-up. Here's two more books I've had for years that I highly recommend also. The smaller book is dated 1981 by Adrian Legg and the larger book is dated 1983 by Donald Brosnac. Strangley enough, you can still order these books online.

[Bluemans335]

Now I remember who you are! I've conversed with you on that Duncan site, but I'm under a different username. That's a great forum and I'm glad I joined. It seems to have a lot of knowledgeable people with a bit more open-mindedness. It's one of my favourite forums. I'm on an SG forum in which another prominent member also strongly recommends that book you mentioned by Dan Erlewine. It seems like the go-to book for guitar maintenance and set-up. Here's two more books I've had for years that I highly recommend also. The smaller book is dated 1981 by Adrian Legg and the larger book is dated 1983 by Donald Brosnac. Strangley enough, you can still order these books online.

 

Got 'em. Yeah, anyone wanting to beef up their knowledge of guitars and PU's needs to join the Duncan forum. Lots of smart guys there to help you. And you can talk about any brand of PU, guitar, amp, pedal, etc.

[milod]

I guess I'm in the wrong place.

 

I didn't realize we'd get into a "You've gotta hot rod mod or your head is wedged" sort of thread.

 

The Swingster has been praised even by Gretchies as pretty doggone close to a classic Gretsch sound.

 

If one wishes something for "metal," it seems more practical to purchase a guitar less likely to feed back and overall more suited to metal. Or one may purchase a nice body/neck purchased specifically for a custom build. I still have some single pole pups left over from a solidbody project of that sort around '73. Some day I may do a build using 'em. Some day.

 

Yeah, I got into that 40+ years ago. It was a nice hobby that in retrospect did little compared to considerations of technique, strings, setup, amp and amp placement, etc. Since both rockers and folkies were practically dumping acoustic archtops in trades during the '60s, I acquired and electrified quite a few. I messed with pups, wiring, pots ... added strings in various configurations for electric playing (7 and 9-string variants), bridges... It was great and rewarding fun.

 

But honestly, I've heard more "mud" in more styles of music by lack of consideration of venue acoustics in stage setup than from the instrument through its amp at close range. That seldom happens to pros, but when it does - it ain't the guitar pups to blame.

 

I see no reason to mod any of my current guitars - some worth a bit were I to sell 'em, some not. Modding just ain't my hobby any more. Since 1975 I bought guitars that were good to excellent for what they were when I bought 'em.

 

I do take serious umbrage with the apparent conviction that if one is not a modder, he or she is a poor benighted soul who doesn't know much about guitars or guitar playing. For some of us the modding hobby continued, for some of us, guitar playing took a different direction.

 

m

[Bluemans335]

I guess I'm in the wrong place.

 

I didn't realize we'd get into a "You've gotta hot rod mod or your head is wedged" sort of thread.

 

I see no reason to mod any of my current guitars - some worth a bit were I to sell 'em, some not. Modding just ain't my hobby any more. Since 1975 I bought guitars that were good to excellent for what they were when I bought 'em.

 

I do take serious umbrage with the apparent conviction that if one is not a modder, he or she is a poor benighted soul who doesn't know much about guitars or guitar playing. For some of us the modding hobby continued, for some of us, guitar playing took a different direction.

 

m

 

Oh, come on, you're being a bit sensitive. There's nothing to take umbrage to. No one's obligated to mod their guitars, but at the same time, not everyone's happy with the way theirs plays or sounds. It's a big world, there's room for both modders and non-modders. What's happened in the aftermarket world with pickups and replacement parts since 1975 has been a revolution. That's been driven by a huge demand amongst players for this stuff. Even Gibsons and other high-end guitars don't always have the sound their owner wants. It's not the quality of the instrument as much as it is the PU's working with the individual pieces of wood. It's much cheaper to replace a PU, or magnet, than buy another guitar. If your mods are reversable, there's no risk or loss. No one says you have to mod your guitars, but it's a popular thing these days, worldwide, and not something to be automatically dismissed. Epiphones are one of the most modded guitars there are.

 

My guitars are all mid-priced imports (mostly Epis), and precious few of them played or sounded like I wanted them to when I bought them. Typically they're in desparate need of a set up, and often have cheap, muddy PU's. When I run across a great deal, I don't care about those things, because I know I can do a set up and swap PU's and I'll love it. For several hundred dollars I have something nice, something stage-worthy. Other guys want their guitars 'nice' when they buy them without changing anything. Both are viable ways of doing things.

 

Regardless of whether someone mods or not, they should still know how to set up their guitars. Wood expands and contracts with seasonal changes, and knowing how to adjust a truss rod and intonation is handy for anybody with an electric guitar. I met a guy at a blues jam who had a Gibson 335 (I had a Sheraton), and his PU's were almost an inch under the strings; he complained about how weak his guitar sounded. There's basic things a guitarist should be able to do himself.

[milod]

I'm in absolute 110 percent agreement on setup. Pup altitude is vital, and IMHO all will vary by the rest of the setup, type of strings, etc., etc. I even play flats somewhat differently than roundwounds and the tone of the same instrument is hugely different thereby.

 

OTOH, I have dumped one - one only - guitar the past 50 years because I thought the pups were muddy after messing with it. But I didn't particularly care for the neck on that guitar after playing it a bit, either. It still made for a good swap for a recent Dot that sounds quite nice through my amps.

 

Seriously, I think modding is a great hobby, but I'm also convinced that 95 percent of what an audience hears ain't necessarily what a picker hopes is coming out of any decent guitar - or even what a weekend warrior thinks he hears at home from a given setup. It's a whole that has greater variables in the player's technique itself, amps, stomp boxes, amp and PA stage setups, how they work together in consideration of acoustics of a given venue.

 

I'm not gonna worry about the other 5 percent. Of course, I'm also a grouchy old man as well as an old picker. In metaphor, I look at the forest as a whole rather than at individual trees in hopes that changing one tree will immediately change the whole forest.

 

Personal opinion on the Swingster for "metal" is that the OP should get a guitar that ain't so likely to feed back regardless of pups, and that the pups and amp should be consistent with metal protocols of stomp boxes, etc., etc. Or he should work toward his own sound using the uniqueness of the Swingster that's atypical for "metal."

 

The aftermarket today has marvelous stuff. It also has marvelous marketing efforts. Relatively new pickers can get awfully enamored with mods and bits of equipment. Been there, done that. I still think that if you reread your earlier pieces responding to my opinion, you'd see why I felt as I responded. If you work for Duncan, I understand the emphatic marketing effort.

 

But seriously, with all the electronic gadgetry and variables out there, pups also are close to the bottom of my own list for change. A new build is a whole 'nother subject.

 

m

[Bluemans335]

Seriously, I think modding is a great hobby, but I'm also convinced that 95 percent of what an audience hears ain't necessarily what a picker hopes is coming out of any decent guitar - or even what a weekend warrior thinks he hears at home from a given setup. It's a whole that has greater variables in the player's technique itself, amps, stomp boxes, amp and PA stage setups, how they work together in consideration of acoustics of a given venue.

 

 

Agreed. There's lots of things in the sound signal. And yes, from the stage it's hard to tell what the audience is actually hearing in any given venue, or even if an instrument or two is drowned out by the others (happens all too often with local bands). But guitarists play their best when they have tones they really like, so what you hear is important, regardless of what the room acoustics do to the sound. If I'm not thrilled with my tones, it'll show in my playing. It's worth it to me to tweak some variables to get that. If I was a better player, maybe it wouldn't matter. Give me some British crunch and I'll get an audience pumped up. Without it, I'm in trouble.

 

I buy most of my guitars online, and after a hour or two of set up and changing PU's and pots, I'm pretty happy with them, especially considering my low investment. My guitars sound so much better then they used to when I didn't know how to do anything. A lot of guys (but certainly not all) would like to be able to do this too. For those that are interested, I'll walk them thru it and share what I've learned. All I ask for here is equal time to see who's interested.

 

No, I don't work for any guitar or PU-related company. It's a combination of becoming a 'Junior luthier' and discovering some of the great aftermarket PU's that have come out in the last decade or two. Like Duncan's Seth Lovers and A2P's, Gibson Burstbuckers, Lollar and Fralin PAF's, DiMarzio 36th Anniversary PAF's, Rio Grandes, etc. And there's a lot of good guitars that sit on shelves or in closets that have a slight backbowed neck, or the intonation is off, or a loose wire on a volume pot. If you know what to do, this is easy stuff (I was totally baffled by it until someone showed me). When it's time to periodically 'thin the herd' I put the stock PU's and pots back in and sell the guitar for what I paid for it, sometimes more. It can really come in handy: I bought a couple Epi's from a guy on Craig's List; he had botched rewiring them and they were totally shorted out. I got a '58 V and a Bigsby LP Std for a total of $250. I fixed the wiring and sold them for $275 each. Who wouldn't want to be able to do that? I have no handyman skills; if this was hard to do, I couldn't do it.

[milod]

Blue...

 

Yup. Sounds like me some 45 years ago although there wasn't online; weren't even specialized mail order guitar places, so I did dickering with guitar stores and radio shops (which no longer exist as such) for stuff they or their customers screwed up in their back shops and made 'em work.

 

I also thought that last 5-10 percent of tone was important to an audience whether I was doing variations of rock or country.

 

The "sound I like?" Which one?

 

<sigh> I guess I'm just too old to understand. Same problem in the acoustic side of the forum. Never could figure how brass or pearl-inlayed bone or ebony bridge pins could improve a guitar's tone by all that much and my technique certainly didn't make as much difference as running a buzzer on the top of a new guitar.

 

But I guess if you ain't got electrical gadgets you've gotta have something to spend money on to keep a hobby going.

 

I figure I'm lucky enough just to keep pickin' and occasionally splurging on a guitar that has enough of a different physical feel to encourage a bit different technique...

 

m

[Bluemans335]

Blue...

 

Yup. Sounds like me some 45 years ago although there wasn't online; weren't even specialized mail order guitar places, so I did dickering with guitar stores and radio shops (which no longer exist as such) for stuff they or their customers screwed up in their back shops and made 'em work.

 

I also thought that last 5-10 percent of tone was important to an audience whether I was doing variations of rock or country.

 

 

It's a whole new world out there. And I ain't no spring chicken myself. The internet has changed everything. Not only the endless products you can find out about and order with a click of a mouse, but all the instructional videos and tab. I've learned songs I could never figure out before, like Tull's 'Aqualung.' The Duncan forum is a great place to ask questions and learn. Members from all over the world there to help you. I wish I was a kid starting out on guitar now. I'd be the next Joe Bonamassa.

 

I've had many guitars over the years, almost all from online. Rarely ever go in a music store or pawn shop. Geez, you can even find other players online and start a band that way. This is not the same world I grew up in.

 

My tone quest is all for me, not the audience. With the right tones, I can dazzle them (my heroes are the British blues players from the late 1960's, what a great time that was! Page, Clapton, Green, Kirwan, Beck, Taylor, Abrams, Simmonds, Trower, Barre, Lee, etc). If I was a more versatile player, I wouldn't be as dependent on tone. But like most guys, I've had to balance guitar with a fulltime job and family.

[Bluemans335]

There's loads of guitar players/buyers/modders who have been weaned on the likes of Premier Guitar Magazine, which as one might suspect, hawks everything "guitar" under the sun. Of course, that's what they do because it's their bread and butter. They have to please their advertisers and would never bite the hand that feeds them. Such media outlets, always driven by the marketing side of things (see: the neverending gadget thread), thinly disguise advertising as journalism. Unfortunately, there are a lot of suckers who believe all of it.

 

Obviously no one needs all that stuff, or even half of it, but some of it can be very useful. You have to filter thru it. That's why I like the Duncan forum. The members try this stuff and tell you what it's really like. They don't hold anything back. From there you can get a good idea if it has any applications for what you want to do. And if there is something you like, you can probably find it used on eBay or Craig's List and get a good deal.

[mcgruff]

There's loads of guitar players/buyers/modders who have been weaned on the likes of Premier Guitar Magazine, which as one might suspect, hawks everything "guitar" under the sun. Of course, that's what they do because it's their bread and butter. They have to please their advertisers and would never bite the hand that feeds them. Such media outlets, always driven by the marketing side of things (see: the neverending gadget thread), thinly disguise advertising as journalism. Unfortunately, there are a lot of suckers who believe all of it.

 

It's just as dumb to dismiss everything as it is to blindly accept everything. That's just not helpful to anyone. A forum like this should reject both extremes; we should be a source of useful information about what does and doesn't matter and why.

 

PS: Someone mentioned brass bridge pins. A luthier, if they're any good, will weigh out the bridge piece to the gram on an acoustic guitar. The mass of the top is very important. An acoustic is a bellows pumping air and the top is the bit that does all the work, driven by saddle torque. Luthiers go to great lengths to select the stiffest (ie lightest) spruce and to develop featherweight bracing designs.

 

Brass bridge pins will significantly alter the mass of the bridge, although different instruments will respond differently to that. An over-built guitar probably isn't going to change much but an expensive, lightly-built model which has been carefully shaved and thicknessed might.

[mcgruff]

No useful information is communicated simply by taking up a position. If we talk about specifics, and explain the reasons behind them, maybe we can all learn something.

[milod]

I think we're confusing a fun hobby of modding guitars to change a perfectly fine guitar from what it was designed to do into something else, and a question from a relatively new player who wants to play something entirely different.

 

Yeah, there are advantages to learning to mess with one's guitar. Most of the long-timers here have done so.

 

But we're talking about a guitar meant to be one thing, hollow body, Gretsch-like pups, etc., and turning it into an imitation solidbody metal screamer by adding different pups.

 

Ain't gonna happen. You can turn it into something along the lines of a Joe Pass jazzer with a whammy, but ... that's what the body was originally.

 

Were we a batch of experienced modders discussing this sorta thing, fine.

 

But I still question a hollow for an inexperienced picker who wants to do metal no matter what pups and over-the-shoulder mod assistance might be available here.

 

For $100-150 new from mail order, you can get a solidbody to wail with and, if it's a decent bit of board and neck, then you can mod it until the cows come home if that's your schtick.

 

m

[mcgruff]

Fact: Bridge pins have to be there in order for the guitar to work

Opinion: The composition of the bridge pins makes a HUGE difference

 

I just explained that... swapping out bone for heavy brass pins can make a significant change to the vibrating mass, depending on the guitar.

 

It's not about specifics; it's about dubiousness and subjective personal opinion.

 

Indeed.

[milod]

Joe...

 

Naaah.

 

Usually those "excellent results" were because the picker ignored common "wisdom" and did his or her own thing and was skilled/talented enough to have a professional presentation that "worked."

 

Roy Buchanan is little known as a jazzer, but he could make that Tele sing "Misty."

 

Uhhhhh... what amp was he using at this or that gig? Doggone if I know. What pups did he replace on that Tele? None that I'm aware of although his technique mighta worn out a cupla volume pots to be replaced.

 

Gear won't replace talent or skill, although guitar "playability" is huge at any skill level, style of music or type of guitar. Gear can reinforce talent if well-considered, but that's it.

 

I think for the relative beginner at guitar/performance it's far too easy to look at gadgetry because that's something they know about.

 

A total beginner walks into a guitar store and the first thing he/she tends to ask is "what does it cost" 'cuz other than what they've seen their favorite pickers use, they don't know anything else to ask. They don't even know, unless the strings are laying on the fingerboard, whether anything in the store is really playable.

 

Then after a time with a playable instrument and an inclination and possible opportunity to play in public, for money or otherwise, the "gear acquisition syndrome" hits hard. That's true regardless of style or picker personality. That window also, it seems to me, is where the most cash is wasted.

 

For example, notice how folks talk about this or that guitar, amp and other equipment 'cuz they're getting into this or that gig, but not about how all that crap will work through, or with, a PA?

 

The musician/entertainer has to figure his schtick and ability first, then have functional instruments and other equipment to maximize strengths and minimize weaknesses as an entertainer.

 

BB could borrow my Dot and one of my amps and still put on a concert sounding like BB and Lucille. And he/we would make certain the sound balance would be more professional than the average weekend saloon band can manage with the same equipment because... such things are considered first.

 

m