The Dove

[merseybeat1963]

Juan..I was looking for the site that gave such an indepth explanation to the bracing patterns/troubles ect of the Dove & Hummingbird..

I was interested when I read it as it explained to me why my first acoustic was what it was..and why the top was sunk in like that.

I just could not find it in passing but its out there..and it was interesting.

 

This is a cool site about Gibsons instruments cause it makes you feel the history when reading about all details.

 

http://home.provide.net/~cfh/gibson.html

[j45nick]

You still haven't.

 

 

You mean it's lagged up from the bottom like the plastic bridges?

[tpbiii]

Oh I see -- I thought we were talking about Doves -- yea the Hummingbird is all original like it came. I have played it against later Hbirds, and it does very well. I have no experience with the required bridge/saddle modifications to make the '62 more like what we imagine it should be -- I know people do it, but for that guitar -- early, near mint all original and fine sounding -- I am happy where we are.

 

When I get back next week, I'll put up some appropriate pairwise comparisons with earlier Gibson.

 

Comparing the two, my memory is the Hbird wins -- but I will review it when next week. They both need new strings anyway. The Dove tunamatic bridge is a true abomination too I would say.

 

I do have some Hbird recorded examples of the same sort as the Dove -- our "the way we were" series. You welcome to them. Here is the whole set.

Let's pick,

 

-Tom

 

PS

 

I guess I should add that I don't have much experience comparing old birds with different features. A recent experience I had which is a bit relavent was a party a week ago when I brought out the Humminbird because one of the guests owns a much newer Hummingbird (maybe ten years old) which she plays a lot in church. Well she went on and on about how much better the old 62 was than hers. Without thinking, I said well that is what you would expect with older instrument. Well, upon reflectiion, given the probable bridge/brideplate setup of the new guitar, maybe that is not what one would expect.

 

As to the Dove, my sister has a 74 which is right here right now. My memory is it is a heavily built guitar that doesn't make a good first impression, but I'll go check now and report back.

[zombywoof]

What really surprises me about the HB bracing is how little taper there is at the ends of the braces.

[tpbiii]

I'm back.

 

Here are the guitars we have with us right now.

 

 

On the left of the '74 Dove is our '35 Jumbo -- a guitar that is certainly among the best I have ever touched. On the right is a six year old red spruce/Cuban mahogany studio guitar Randy Wood built for Ron Petersen, the Nashville songwriter and studio musician. This is a hyper balanced guitar in the same class as boutique builders are currently making for fingerstyle players. On the far left is a parts guitar (many old Regal parts) put together by our friend John Farley. John is hard to explain if you don't know him -- bluegrass flatpicking pioneer whose main guitar is a '38 D-28. He has been building guitars for 40+ years. He cares nothing for cosmetics -- only sound. He put great sounding guitars in the hand of young players who could otherwise not own anything that sounds that good for many years.

 

Well, it is certainly unfair competition -- and it is no surprise the Dove is nowhere near as good as the others. Its tone is nice and it plays well, but it sounds like it has a mute compared to the others.

 

This is really no surprise -- Norlin era guitars generally don't sound very good, but every now and then someone reports on a good one. And hope springs eternal. It sure is pretty though.

 

Best,

 

-Tom

[E-minor7]

What a thrill it was listening to this string of guitars.

Though plastic bridged, the old Hummingbird sounded like an example of how this actually can work (as knowing people say).

A bit soft strummed, but one could sense the highly original voice of the plast/wooden saddle combo.

 

The Dove also sounded tempting guess it's a 5/8 or 9/16.

 

Thanks -

[JuanCarlosVejar]

thanks guys ,

 

good sounding and looking guitars Tom ... the hbird wins in sound over the dove but I bet if we took the tune o matic of the dove it would sound alot better =D .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks to everyone for contributing

 

 

 

JC

[tpbiii]

I'm back.

 

I am now home with the '65 Dove. Here is its picture.

 

 

My analysis of the obvious is the braces are fairly thin and tapered -- not scalloped. The bridgeplate is largish, but not REALLY large.

 

We love to compare guitars -- to each other and in a lot of playing environments. The majority of our guitars are prewar and wartime. We have done a lot of prewar comparisons -- as Paul Brown said when asked why he ran Jim Brown so much when he coached the Cleveland Browns, "when you have a big gun, shoot it."

 

We also have always been interested in 60s guitars because they were the folk revival era instruments of our youth which we could not afford. But since we now only play that style occasionally, we have not done near as much with the 60s guitars. Also, they do not populate our social life like the older guitars -- people don't bring similar instruments to us to see and play near as often.

 

So I really have never tried to test the effect of a tune-o-matic bridge or a plastic bridge with an adjustable saddle and developed a firm opinion. It seems like both would be suboptimal, but I have not carefully tested this with my own ears in a nuanced way.

 

I'm feeling guilty. So I'm going to do some new comparisons for 60s guitars. We have 12 of them (acoustic) -- but one is being fostered and two are so modified that it is not a true test of 60s guitars. So what we have left is my wife's first MWard guitar (Kay), '59 LG-1 (close enough), '62 Hbird, '65 Dove, '65 F25, '63 D-18. '65 D-21. '67 D-35S, and 69 D-35 (BRW). Several we are quite familiar with , but the Birds are not among them.

 

When I think I have something to say, I'll start a new threat. All relevant experiences are welcome and encouraged.

 

I guess my first really obvious observation is the '65 Dove is a lot stronger than my sister's '74 Dove, even with its tune-o-matic bridge

 

Best,

 

-Tom