Vinniealbs Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 I just inherited a what I believe is a 1956 Gibson archtop ES-125. it was left to me by my grandfather that purchased it new in Germany while serving in the Army. I recently brought it to a guitar store to be identified. The person told me it had all of the characteristics of a ES-125 except for the fact it has the pearliod trapezoid inlays. I am new to the guitar world, therefore i am taking the stores word, but other then this one, i have never seen another 1956 with the pearl inlays, only the doted inlays. The clerk at the store told me Gibson as a company has been very inconsistent over the years and all though he himself has never seen one he believes it is not far fetched that at the time this specific guitar or batch was built in the factory that they decided to go with the pearl and not the dotted inlays, just because. I have heard of this by doing research with the serial and FON numbers being inconsistent but not so much as far as style and add ons. the only guitars that i have seen that i believe fits the discription is the ES-130 and or the ES-135, i have never seen either of these in person but have seen them on the computer and i know they did start making them in 1956. there is no serial number that i can find on the guitar, just a FON number I found inside the guitar by looking through the f holes. I guess what im asking is if anyone could tell me if this is indeed a ES-125 or maybe another model. And if it is a 125 if maybe i have something special in example only a limited amount were produced or if it is a different type of a 125 kinda like a 125t or 125c. The FON number is V4945-30 . Thank you very much for your time!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 What you have there looks to be an ES-150 from 1956! This is the third thread that I've now posted this same info in. How many are there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 What you have there looks to be an ES-150 from 1956! This is the third thread that I've now posted this same info in. How many are there? Why not an ES-135, Larry? It's hard to be sure from the photos, but from the overall dimensions it looks like a 135 to me. What's the body width across the lower bout? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Why not an ES-135, Larry? It's hard to be sure from the photos, but from the overall dimensions it looks like a 135 to me. What's the body width across the lower bout? What's the difference between an es-135, and a ES one-fiddy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 Why not an ES-135, Larry? It's hard to be sure from the photos, but from the overall dimensions it looks like a 135 to me. What's the body width across the lower bout? What's the difference between an es-135, and a ES one-fiddy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 12, 2013 Share Posted February 12, 2013 The most obvious that come to mind: 150: 17" wide, 25 1/2" scale 135: 16 1/4" wide, 24 3/4" scale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinniealbs Posted February 12, 2013 Author Share Posted February 12, 2013 thanks everyone, sorry about having it in two different forums, i am new to this and was not sure which one to put it in. The guitar is in the shop having new tuners put on do to the fact the old ones dried out and pretty much crumbled in my hand. I did study it a little more and saw a couple of other clues such as binding on the fretboard, individual tuners rather then the 3x3, and different pickguard. I am not sure on the dimensions because of it being in the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Here you go: http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/40U-4028.htm Notice that the ES130 (which would become the 135 in 1956) had individual tuners, unlike the ES125. The bound fretboard is common to both the 130/135 and the 150. Even the pickguard looks identical (the 150 pickguard had a beveled edge on the bass side). I still think yours looks like a 135. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinniealbs Posted February 13, 2013 Author Share Posted February 13, 2013 thanks again, i am a true believer its a 135 or 150, wont be able to tell in till i get it back and i will be sure to let all of you know. I did how ever fin a 1956 es 135 that sold on ebay a couple of years ago with the same batch number as my factory order number V4945. I would doubt the would mix 135 and 150 in the same batch but like i said before this is my first guitar and dont know my *** from my elbow at this point. but his was a 1956 ES 135 FON V4945-8 and mine is V4945-30. if you have any insight on this great, if not i will not bother you guys anymore in till i do have the dimensions. Very happy i joined this forum and i have learned more today from all of you then i have ever known about guitars. i am 27 got injured in the military and am learning guitar for physical and recreational therapy, cant wait to start!! jim, stien and larry Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoopalini Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 ES-125 ES-125- arched maple top, f-holes, 16.25 in. by 20.25 in. by 3.375 in., raised black pickguard, bound body, maple back, mahogany sides/neck, 14/19-fret rosewood fingerboard with pearl dot inlay, adjustable rosewood bridge/trapeze tailpiece, blackface peghead with pearl logo inlay, 3-per-side tuners, nickel hardware, single coil pickup, volume/tone control, available in Sunburst finish, variations mfg. 1941-1943, and 1946-1970. Some production occurred in 1941-1943, though the majority of production was post-World War II. In 1946, a few models were produced with an all-mahogany body. Also in 1946, a black P-90 pickup with non-adjustable pulls in the neck position, a tortoise shell pickguard, trapeze tailpiece with a raised diamond, single bound top and back, unbound fingerboard, pearloid trapezoid inlay, and Sunburst finish were introduced as standard on this model. By 1950, a plain tailpiece and dot fingerboard inlays were introduced, in addition to a standard P-90 pickup. In 1955, a 14/19-fret fingerboard was introduced. ES-135 ES-135 (MFG. 1956-58)- archtop, bound maple body, single bound top/back and fingerboard, f-holes, laminated raised black pickguard, mahogany neck, 22-fret rosewood fingerboard with pearl trapezoid inlays, trapeze tailpiece, decal logo on headstock, 3-per-side tuners with pearl buttons, chrome hardware, one P-90 single coil pickup mounted one inch from fingerboard, volume/tone controls, 16.25 in. wide, 24 3/4 in. scale, available in Sunburst finish, mfg. 1956-58. ES-150 ES-150 (1936-1942 MFG.) - spruce top, f-holes, bound black pickguard, bound body, flat maple back, mahogany sides/neck, 14/19-fret bound rosewood fingerboard with pearl dot inlay, adjustable rosewood bridge/trapeze tailpiece, pearl peghead logo inlay, three-per-side tuners, nickel hardware, single coil pickup, volume/tone control, available in Sunburst finish, mfg. 1936-1942. ES-150 (1946-1956 MFG.) - similar to ES-150 (pre-war model), except has slightly larger 17 in. body, layered black pickguard, silkscreen peghead logo, laminated maple body, P-90 pickup in neck position, and side mounted jack, mfg. 1946-1956. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Great info. Now we just need the OP to tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoopalini Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 What's interesting, is the OP's has a 20 fret fingerboard. The ES-125 has a 19 fret board The 135 has a 22 fret board The 150 has a 19 fret board, unless they changed to 20 in 1946 and it's not reported in the blue book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 What's interesting, is the OP's has a 20 fret fingerboard. The ES-125 has a 19 fret board The 135 has a 22 fret board The 150 has a 19 fret board, unless they changed to 20 in 1946 and it's not reported in the blue book? Unless I'm mistaken, you have been quoting from "the blue book" a lot. Are you using that as a reference guide? I'm sure most of the info is probably accurate in there, but I've never heard of anybody seriously relying on that for details about guitar history. Not sure where you (or they) got the impression that the 135 had 22 frets. Duchossoir indicates 19, which is the number of frets on the example I linked to in my previous post. I just did an online image search, and most of the examples I'm seeing have 20 frets. At any rate, the OP's having 20 frets doesn't surprise me. Not only will you see inconsistencies and custom-ordered variations on occasion on most Gibson models, the 130/135 was very short-lived. It could almost be seen as an experimental model (I mean, they even changed the name of it). Edit: It just occurred to me where you probably got the 22-fret idea. The ES135 was "reintroduced" in 1991. The only thing that was really being reintroduced was the model name/designation, because it was a different guitar. That one had 22 frets: You have to think these things through, and not believe everything you read. Even provide.net, which a lot of people (including me) use for reference, has errors. In describing the 1954 model, they list a "sharp cutaway" as one of the features. Obviously they crossed up info about the 1954 and 1991 ES 135's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoopalini Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Yes Jim, I have been finding information in the Blue Book. I ordered the 14th edition Acoustic and Electric books, and also subscribed to the online version for Electrics to make searching easier. It's just part of my research tools for the guitar collection I am cataloging. The blue book states 22 frets for the ES-135, but obviously that is incorrect for the year model referenced. Here is what it says about the 1991 - 2002 ES-135: ES-135 (MFG. 1991-2002)- single sharp cutaway semi-hollow bound maple body, f-holes, raised black pickguard, maple neck, 22-fret rosewood fingerboard with pearl dot inlay, tune-o-matic bridge/trapeze tailpiece, 3-per-side tuners with pearl buttons, chrome hardware, two P-90 single coil pickups, four knobs (two v, two tone), three-position switch, available in Cherry, Ebony, Vintage Sunburst and Gothic (100% Satin Black finish, black chrome hardware, and 12th fret moon and star inlay) finishes, hardshell case became standard in 1998, mfg. in Memphis, mfg. 1991-2002. I completely understand there are margins for error on any publication, I'm just trying to be helpful with the information I have at my disposal. Thanks for clearing up the 20 vs 22 fret fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Yes Jim, I have been finding information in the Blue Book. I ordered the 14th edition Acoustic and Electric books, and also subscribed to the online version for Electrics to make searching easier. It's just part of my research tools for the guitar collection I am cataloging. The blue book states 22 frets for the ES-135, but obviously that is incorrect for the year model referenced. Here is what it says about the 1991 - 2002 ES-135: I completely understand there are margins for error on any publication, I'm just trying to be helpful with the information I have at my disposal. Thanks for clearing up the 20 vs 22 fret fact. That's cool, I guess I've just never thought of a blue book as a serious research tool. Times change, of course. :) I'm not sure I've cleared anything up, by the way. There really could be a 50's 135 out there with 22 frets. It appears that 20 might have been the most common number, but who knows. There aren't all that many 135's turning up in a google image search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoopalini Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 That's cool, I guess I've just never thought of a blue book as a serious research tool. Times change, of course. :) LOL, maybe it's not a good reference after all? Although up to this point with the ES-135, it's been very accurate with the descriptions. Since the collection I'm working with is being prepped for sale, I bought the books to have something the owner could use as a reference for value. The Provide.net site is a great one too, which I'm using as well ... for identification and FON/Serial info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 Good thread. I'm actually learning something. And I always kinda wondered about these (125, 135, 150, l-50...etc) as to what they are when it comes to the different models and options. Regardong the Blue Book, I respect it. I don't think it's a research tool as far as identification other than getting into the ballpark, and it leaves out a lot as well. But, it is a good source in that it has a lot of info compacted for quick reference. Just a little non-related (maybe) tidbit, it's OBVIOUS the current "135" has no relation to this older one we are talking about, as it's a new design that hasn't existed before. I actually didn't know there WAS an older origonal 135 before now. I mean, the way I have always taken it, is that the 135 gets it's roots from the last version of the 125...the cutaway, slimline version hollow body with the dogear P-90's and trapeze (well, obviously as it's a full-hollow). I THOUGHT the 135 was so named because it isn't a 125, but rather a newer model different enough to have it's own designation. Maybe they just forgot or weren't aware there was already a 135 designation used in the past? Of corse, if it made since, it wouldn't be consistant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 13, 2013 Share Posted February 13, 2013 I mean, the way I have always taken it, is that the 135 gets it's roots from the last version of the 125...the cutaway, slimline version hollow body with the dogear P-90's and trapeze (well, obviously as it's a full-hollow). I THOUGHT the 135 was so named because it isn't a 125, but rather a newer model different enough to have it's own designation. Maybe they just forgot or weren't aware there was already a 135 designation used in the past? Well, if so, they've done that twice! :) That is, the 1950's ES135 was an "upgrade" of the earlier ES125. Considering how many model variations Gibson has come out with in recent years (and their willingness to use dozens of model numbers that I never thought I'd live to see, like 137, 346, etc), it's too bad they couldn't have just used new numbers for updated (completely changed!) versions of previous models. The evolution from ES125 to ES125T to ES125TC made sense, but it's getting very confusing now when they re-use numbers for models that bear little or no resemblance to models of the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted February 14, 2013 Share Posted February 14, 2013 When the Blue Book of Guitars series came out, I bought a number of the early acoustic versions. I found numerous mistakes, and even wrote them regarding needed correction. Some got fixed, but errors continued to the point that I gave up on the publication. Hopefully they've become more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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