Col Mustard

If the guitar is brand new, my suggestion is to play the hell out of it. Sometimes new guitars need to "work in" a bit. I've seen many posts by players who bought a brand new guitar and immediately started finding problems with it. Gibson has a warranty on their products, check how long that warranty is, and play the hell out of this guitar for half that time. Then change the strings, re-do the setup and see where you are. >Also, +1 on the idea that your new Gibson might be fine, and your tuner might be reading slightly off. Personally I would trust Gibson more than I would trust some tuners. I have three Gibsons, and have had great experience with all of them so I'm no Gibson basher. Good luck with this, and good playing, and excellent tone for you.

We should petition Epiphone to build their ES series guitars with an access door on the back, like Les Pauls and SGs have. That would make our lives a lot easier, wouldn't it?

I have an Epiphone ES-339 P-90 pro, which is similar to your guitar in construction. All the toggle switches are similar, but it's so much hassle to get into the electronics of a "semi-hollow" guitar that I recommend you try EVERYTHING else first. Get a can of DeOxit, and spray that switch before you attempt to replace it. This will likely solve your problem. >If it does NOT, then you'll need to decide what to do. You could try replacing only the switch. Tie a piece of fishing line around your existing toggle before you unscrew it. You'll want to have a long needle nose plier handy. Everything has to go in and out the F-hole, because of the solid center block in your guitar. Be very careful not to nick the black paint that Epiphone uses on the inside of the F-hole, to hide the layers of plywood they use for the guitar top, and to avoid the expense of binding. Solder the new switch on in the same way the factory part was connected. Use the fishing line to pull it back into the hole in the top. >Or you could take your Epiphone to the best luthier you can find or afford, and have that person replace the entire wiring harness with high quality parts. I did this on my ES-339, because I figured that if one part failed, they all were suspect. I also decided it was worth paying a guy to do it who knows how, and spend my time playing music instead of cursing the makers of my guitar. I also paid the luthier to replace everything because I am SO FOND of my Epiphone. >I have fallen head over heels for my Epi, and now that I've replaced dodgy parts with good quality, my guitar can take its place onstage alongside instruments costing eight to ten times what I paid, and not give up a thing. I bought the ES-339 because I wanted that guitar and I wanted that price. The price was low enough that I used the money I didn't spend... to buy a hard shell case and some good quality parts. I ended up with a really fine instrument.

String breakage can be caused by a number of things: 1. Age... old dead strings will break. Replace them often! If you can't remember how old they are, then they are too old. (also, old dead strings don't stay in tune well. This is one way you know it's time to replace them. 2. Sharp edges where they touch the guitar. New guitars sometimes have sharp edges that will break strings. With use, these will round themselves off. Or the owner can use a needle file to do it. You can feel it with your finger, and give it a few strokes. Strings may stop breaking at that point. 3. Binding in nut slots... once again, new guitars may have some edges or burrs in these crucial areas. Nut work is expert work, but if you are breaking strings at the nut, or if you hear the PING sound when you tune a string you can guess that the string is binding there. A few strokes with a needle file, or a fisherman's hook sharpening stone can open it up very slightly. I usually lube my nut slots with a home made mixture of vaseline and powdered graphite. A tiny drop on a toothpick is enough for a nut slot, or a bridge saddle slot, or under the string tree on a Fender. Good luck, and good playing.

thanks for the good word... SGs ROCK!

I've been an SG fan since about 1963, when I saw my first one in the hands of the lead guitar player of some band at a party I went to. I was about fifteen. I couldn't take my eyes off that guy's guitar. It was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. There were no Les Pauls at that time, they had been discontinued due to lack of interest. I probably didn't even know anything about Les Pauls then, because Les Paul himself was passe and. played my parents' music. The SG was a rocker, and made a deep impression on my young soul. >After playing acoustic and bass for literally decades, I finally bought myself Gibson SG in 2008, as a gift to myself for turning 60. I bought an SG special with the faded finish. That humble SG special is the best guitar of any kind that I have ever played. By now I've modded it with all the best of everything I could buy or make, not because there was anything wrong with it as built, but because I fell so head over heels for this guitar that I wanted nothing but the best for my baby. Like some sugar daddy, buying pretty things for a lovely woman... She doesn't really need anything to be beautiful, but he loves the way she behaves when she's wearing that... >And it's ten years later, and she's still the Queen of my music room. The above posts are correct, G.A.S. will re-assert itself, but the SG is undiminished. One of th e world's best guitars, IMHO. Mine weighs 6.75 pounds and balances perfectly.

Here I will quote from an experienced friend who has shared his method on another forum. This method works very well, and is the opposite of what you are normally told. This works well enough that it ought to be made a sticky. My friend's online handle is "Biddlin." "Start in your normal tuning, ie if you play in double drop c tune your guitar to double drop c . Retune between each adjustment. Begin by setting the bridge height for frets 17-22 so that the strings play buzz free at the lowest possible height. Start with low E. Lower the bass side until it buzzes, raise until clear. Check A and D raise slightly if needed to get clean notes. Then do the treble side. If you bend notes up here, try a few typical bends, to make sure they don't buzz out. When all strings play clean go to the lower frets and neck relief. Play the high E string from fret 1 to fret 16, increasing relief (loosening trussrod) to relieve buzz or decreasing relief (tightening trussrod) to lower the string height. So tighten, by fractional turns, until it buzzes and back off until it doesn't. If you bend strings , do your typical bends to insure they don't buzz out. Once satisfied, check the other strings and make small adjustments as needed. Once you have acceptable relief, i.e. no buzz and easy action, set your intonation and you're done."

I'll bet your ex-Epiphone is worth the effort. I have a step daughter who expressed an interest in playing guitar when she was about 11 years old. Her dad responded by buying her an Epiphone Les Paul Special ll. *grins She brought that home and was all excited. I responded by getting her some cool upgrades for it. I actually thought it sounded pretty good just out of the box. But I knew it could be better. I ended up replacing almost everything I could unscrew or unsolder. Just a labor of love, that's all. Grover tuners, Tusq nut, Gibson 490 pickups out of my SG, Tone Pros bridge and tail, a good quality wiring harness. The neck and the frets were fine. The body is made of plywood, but that doesn't have much effect on the instrument. Wood is like, not magnetic. The Gibson p'ups sound better in the Epiphone that they did in the Gibson. A decent nut is also a key point, as is the bridge. Good quality parts there make a difference, an important difference. So she ends up with a guitar that is much more than it appears to be. Great tone and sustain, it's set up very well and is easy to play, and stays in tune. Hard to beat. Also, it doesn't attract thieves. We kept the original "Special ll" decal on. So it looks like an inexpensive Epi, but it plays like a million. I'm sure yours does too.

One suggestion that I have made on other fora, concerning neck shapes. Neck shapes are irrelevant if you keep your thumb behind the neck. I do know that many many internet posts are created by guys who feel that a guitar neck that is "too chunky' or "too whippy" is a crucial issue. So I'll buck all this and say that the human hand can play any instrument from a ukulele to a double bass with no problems. We pick our guitars based on the tone we need for the song we intend to play. Then we tell our hands to play the selected instrument, and we practice until the hand complies. Allowing your hand to tell you what guitar you will play... seems like taking career advice from a three year old. Never allow this. Tell your hand to play the guitar you need in order to make the sounds you hear in your head. This from a musician who plays acoustic, electric and bass guitars. I never think about neck shapes. All my instruments have different shapes. I just play them. And I suggest that you shop for guitars based on the tone you want to achieve, knowing that your hand is capable of accommodating your needs and wishes, to perform the music that only you can do.

Seven hundred is a lot for an Epi... But the Casinos get more respect than most because of how much great music was created and played on them. Good question, whether a used one is worth that much. Me, I'd offer $500. If the seller got pissed, I wouldn't cry. What I suggest is that you go where Epiphone guitars are sold, and try out a couple of alternatives. Epiphone makes other semi hollow P-90 equipped guitars. One of those is what I bought, when I decided I had to have a P-90 guitar. I bought an Epiphone ES-339 P-90 pro. This is a smaller instrument than a Casino, and I really like that. My ES-339 has become one of my favorite guitars. I'm an old guy now, a Beatle fan. When I realized how many of my favorite songs had been played by Lennon on his Epiphone Casino, I began to lust for one. This was during the great 2015 Gibson bash-fest. There was so much negativity on internet fora during those times, I grew impatient. I'm also a Gibson fan. The 2015 Gibson bashing was all bull-taco, as we know now, but it had some basis from the player's POV. My response was to go hunting, and what I found was my excellent Epiphone ES-339. I highly recommend this model, and the other one I looked at during those times was the Epiphone Casino Coupe. The Coupe is built on the same size body as the ES-339. It's smaller and (for me) more comfortable to play. I really intended to buy an Epiphone Casino Coupe. It has the same twin P-90 setup as the full size Casino, but the body is about the size of a Les Paul, and about a pound lighter. It has the same neck. The idea of getting the Casino sound on a smaller body and a lower price was very appealing to me. The ES-339 was even less expensive. So I decided I didn't need to get a Chinese or Japanese Copy of what John Lennon played. I went for a 21st century version of this instrument, and I made the right choice. I played a Casino Coupe at two different music stores when I was on my hunt, and loved the tone. You should see if you can find one. A used one would cost half of what the "inspired Casino" demands. ...and give the same tone, and give an excellent feel. So this is a recommendation from a fan of the same tones, who has owned his ES-339 P-90 pro since 2015 and is still arse over teakettle in love with it.

I don't think anyone makes fake Epiphone Les Paul Special lls... The genuine guitars don't sell for that much money, so there's no financial incentive. What you have is like a parts-caster. We can assemble Fender style guitars out of parts that have been bought or made or stolen, and make a playable instrument. This is true for bolt-on neck Epiphones also. And this is what you have. It doesn't look much like what left the Epiphone factory, but that's okay because it is something you have changed to meet your own needs. Or just to have some fun. Epiphones respond very well to upgrades. Inexpensive Epiphone guitars can be made into real players. I know this because I have done it. Repeatedly. One of my favorite instruments is a 1997 ex-Squier P-bass that was abandoned by its owner. The original instrument probably didn't cost more than $150 US when it was new in 1997. By the time it came to me, it was in bad shape... it had been down in some basement, under piles of debris, and the hardware was all rusty and the instrument was covered in mold and mildew or other life forms. I got it free, and treated it like a rescue puppy. I actually took it to a good luthier, asking him if he thought he could get the neck straight. I said, if he could, I'd take the instrument on as a project. Otherwise, it was bound for a Viking Funeral. He got the neck straight. That was the key. With a playable neck, all I needed to do was install good quality parts. I stripped off and threw away all the hardware, including the neck plate with the serial number. I bought new (good) parts: Schaller tuners, Fender nut, StewMac Golden Age P-bass pickup, Alpha pots, Switchcraft jack, and a Gotoh Bridge. My reward for doing the work was to end up with a very playable Precision Bass. It weighs about nine pounds and balances perfectly. Great tone and sustain. The neck and frets work fine, no problems. I have about $450 into it now, including an excellent high end gig bag for it. This bass can take its place alongside instruments costing ten times as much, and not give up a thing. So I would not worry about whether your Special ll is a fake. I would just mod it to suit yourself and play the hell out of it. What you have is a cool custom guitar that will be what you make of it. It likely has a low resale value... like my ex-Squier bass. So its real value is in the music it can make. When I had my bass stripped down, I sanded off the Squier decal. And installed a new blank neck plate. So my bass is no longer a Squier P-bass. It is now one of a kind, and so is your guitar. Get it set up perfectly by the best luthier you can find or afford. That's the best mod you can do to it. Then play it loud.

Bone might be best... most advanced luthiers I've talked to prefer bone. I like tusq... I've replaced three Epiphone nuts with tusq and heard a tonal improvement but I confess that I also upgraded the bridges and pickups at the same time. I have a tusq nut and bridge saddle on my 2018 J-45 AG, and these work fine. My J-45 is so new that I've been listening to its tone mellow for the last year, and I'm sure it will continue. Those parts were factory stock... anyway they are serviceable as issued and I feel no need at this time to change them out. So I'm still playing and listening as my new guitar's tone changes. I've actually never owned a NEW acoustic guitar before. All my other acoustics were purchased used. I decided to pounce on this one because I knew Gibson was entering their bankruptcy phase, so I got mine just before that happened. In the future, these might be known as "pre-bankruptcy" Gibsons. *laughs I thought I'd support my favorite guitar company in the only way I know how. I wasn't buying any of the preferred stock... just a guitar. Good choice... Guitars make music. I don't really understand why players might object to tusq. I've had considerable experience with nuts made from this material. But I have a Gibson SG with a factory Corian nut, and this seems fine to me also. It's given zero trouble since 2013. If I thought there was something wrong with the tusq nut and bridge saddle on my J-45, I would seriously consider changing them. So I read this post with interest, and an open mind. On a J-45, bone seems like the proper material. And that's what I would choose, if I thought I needed to. Ebony seems too soft and too easily split. I have made pick guards out of Ebony, as well as tenon covers and control cavity covers and Truss Rod Covers. I like Ebony, but not for the nut. IMHO, tusq is better, and bone is maybe just a little better than that. But only a little. My J-45 is a 21st century instrument, which unplugs ALL of the 'vintage J-45" mystique. Mine has a unique tone, which I like. Walnut back and sides, walnut bridge, walnut fretboard, spruce top... Maple neck. I confess that I like unique instruments. Especially this one, made from North American hardwood and tone wood. Which unplugs ALL of the tropical tonewood mystique as well. As soon as I heard about this guitar, I wanted one. Tropical tone wood is a vanishing resource, and so it is an obsolete issue IMHO. The old guitars are still there to be bought by the fans of the traditional materials. Some sound great, some don't. Just like now.

sorry I repeated myself... I musta been dreaming about people tearing down beautiful guitars... Love this from Black Dog: "They take a perfectly good historic, take it apart completely, strip the finish, re-carve the top and neck, change the fretboard and put it all back together claiming it's even more historic than when it was historic ... Of course, that was for the older generation historic's which were less historic than the current historic's. Nothing is more historic than the current historic's. To get anything more historic now you'll need a time machine." Love it love it. And yeah, it's always the privelege of the OP or anybody else to make up their own mind and do as they wish. Be well, play loud...

I've said this in other similar threads but if you bought a custom shop guitar and paid the premium price for it, and then you find fault with it... What I think you should do is sell that guitar unmodified to someone who values it more than you do. Don't mod it, sell it, and use the money to buy what you really want. There is no reason for any Gibson guitar pickups to sound 'too bright" or 'too muddy" or what. Gibson pickups are accurate. The tone achieved by the player is a combination of many factors, beginning with the pick he selects, (or his bare fingers) and continuing through all the magnetics and electronics and output through the speakers he chose to install in the amp he chose to play. If you can't figure out how to find your tone with a Gibson Custom shop guitar, then I recommend you sell that immediately to someone who can. Then use the money to go on your quest. Go where they sell them...Play as many as they'll let you. Buy the one that comes alive in your hands. That's the only way to find the right guitar. Because with Gibsons, it doesn't matter if it's a custom shop guitar or an SG faded special... One will be a clunker, and one will be gold. And there's really no way to know, until you play it. Play a lot of them, and one will emerge as THE ONE. It might surprise you, and be of much more humble origins. But still a Gibson. It really doesn't matter if a guitar was made in the custom shop, if it doesn't come alive in your hands when you play it. Players like me regard the Custom Shop as a con game. All Gibsons are excellent. Custom Shop makes instruments for guys that can afford to pay extra for the same thing the rest of us already have. *shrugs You don't have to believe me. Just go on the personal quest that I recommend, and make up your own mind. But before you do, unload the Custom Shop guitar that doesn't please you. Unload it without devaluing it by ill considered modifications. Somewhere there is a player who would respect that instrument much more than you do. Find that person, and get their money, and turn over the Gibson, and let it all go. Then begin your quest in person. I predict that you'll have a lot of fun in the search, and you'll end up with something that makes your music soar like an eagle.

well and so... I've seen plenty of this debate over on another forum known as ETSG which of course represents Everything SG... I am old enough to remember sweaty nights in dicey venues, when the guitars were cranky and would not stay in tune... Humidity, stuffy heat, bitter cold, grease in the air from the kitchens, Tobacco smoke and girl perfume... whatever factors were at work would sometimes sabotage even the most meticulous of professionals. (I was NEVER that). In those primitive days, we were using tuning forks, harmonicas, even dodgy honky-tonk pianos to tune our guitars. No electronic tuners (except the fancy strobes used in recording studios), no internet, no stomp tuners, no clip-ons... no cell phones with the Gibson app... just the human ear. The human ear has good days and bad days. Mine do anyway. So I remember raising my voice in frustration, and swearing that who so ever would invent a servo to mount behind the headstock of any guitar and keep said guitar in tune would become very rich. Now we all know it ain't that simple... Many thanks to the OP for a great write-up, and for all that meticulous dis-assembly and analysis. That, sir was well done, and maybe should be made into a sticky on this site, since this topic is sure to be revived again and again. In spite of my frustration in the '70s, I don't own a robot tuner mechanism. I am happy with the stomp tuners I have on my boards, and with the clip-ons I use any other time. So I have watched the whole debate with detachment of one who is truly uninvolved. I too can tune my own guitar. And I can go from one tuning to another... although my guitars often become cranky when asked to submit to this. My solution as a practical musician is to bring two guitars to any gig (as well as my bass since I'm a switch hitter). I will tune one to something I intend to use in a particular set, and then change it and let it sulk for a bit before asking it to perform in a different mode. I use good quality standard tuners... coupled with stomp tuners and clip-ons. And this works. So I don't need the Tronical invention any more. In spite of how cool it seems... to be able to save DADGAD as a preset, along with DADF#AD and its sister DADF#CD and their cousin EBEAbBE... those features are VERY attractive to someone like me, who actually can use three of those tunings in one set. My problem with techno marvels, as a working musician... is DEPENDABILITY... I have learned the hard way never to trust techno marvels when a performance, and maybe my career are on the line. Keep it simple. Keep it analog. You can buy guitars with push-pull knobs enabling the guitarist to emulate several different instruments (badly), and you can buy amps that enable the guitarist to emulate many different rigs (approximately) by "modeling" but I have learned (the hard way) that the best tone is the simplest. Not everyone will agree of course. Anyway, I found all of this thread interesting, and I still maintain an open mind on this topic, even though I don't own any of the technology and have refrained from investing in it. For me it's easier and more effective to buy another guitar. This actually works! But I can still see how useful this technology might be to the overworked and underpaid guitarist who needs to be able to play multiple styles in one night, and who needs logistics to be as simple as possible... instead of what I was saying. If you go to the gig on the subway, with a guitar in one hand and a very cool amp in the other, then versatility is the key, and the tronical technology might help you a lot. ...as long as it works. Multiple guitars not an option? Use this tronical robot Les Paul, and bring home the bacon.