Dealer exclusive Les Paul's

[DBRUCE]

Hello all, I have heard that the "Dealer Exclusive" models' specifications are set by the dealer ( say, Guitar Center). Can anyone tell me if these specifications are general things like "finish color" and what PUPS and Tuners to use or more specific things like which Pots, Switches, Capacitors, etc... I don't mean to offend anyone, but I guess what I'm asking is when the product is billed as say, a "Les Paul Standard", is it a righteous "Standard" or something more on the level of a "Studio" or other lesser model of Les Paul. All responses appreciated. Thank You !

[Golden]

GC simply supplies what they "think" players want but perhaps are not being supplied at any given moment by Gibson. For example for a moment Gibson wasn't offering a RO or a RI-Historic 60 Les Paul, GC at the time offered a GO which in effect IS a RO. So in effect what happens is this may work out very well with players such as with this particular LP. Perhaps in other situations, not so much. Recently for example they offered a SG Standard similar to a 61 RI minus the ABR but with coil splitting options and different finish options. At the time Gibson wasn't offering a 61 RI SG so they filled a void by a special order. As I was saying, sometimes it works out very well, other times I suppose not.

[DBRUCE]

GC simply supplies what they "think" players want but perhaps are not being supplied at any given moment by Gibson. For example for a moment Gibson wasn't offering a RO or a RI-Historic 60 Les Paul, GC at the time offered a GO which in effect IS a RO. So in effect what happens is this may work out very well with players such as with this particular LP. Perhaps in other situations, not so much. Recently for example they offered a SG Standard similar to a 61 RI minus the ABR but with coil splitting options and different finish options. At the time Gibson wasn't offering a 61 RI SG so they filled a void by a special order. As I was saying, sometimes it works out very well, other times I suppose not.

 

Hi, Thanks for responding, So then basically, your saying a Standard is a Standard. No components are being used that would constitute the difference between say, a Standard and a Studio. I mean things have to be done to bring the cost down from a Standard to a Studio level. Here's my reason for asking: I own what GC called an SG Standard. 2011 limited run "Honey Burst" with 490R, 498T zebras, push/pulls, and Klusen Deluxes. I just bought (private party) what GC called a Les Paul Standard Plus AAA quilted top limited run " Blue Steel" . Also a 2011 with Burstbucker 1 and 2, push/pulls and locking Grovers. I received info from Gibson Support website that was a little vague, and somehow I got the idea that some components may be sub"Standard".

[Golden]

Hi, Thanks for responding, So then basically, your saying a Standard is a Standard. No components are being used that would constitute the difference between say, a Standard and a Studio. I mean things have to be done to bring the cost down from a Standard to a Studio level. Here's my reason for asking: I own what GC called an SG Standard. 2011 limited run "Honey Burst" with 490R, 498T zebras, push/pulls, and Klusen Deluxes. I just bought (private party) what GC called a Les Paul Standard Plus AAA quilted top limited run " Blue Steel" . Also a 2011 with Burstbucker 1 and 2, push/pulls and locking Grovers. I received info from Gibson Support website that was a little vague, and somehow I got the idea that some components may be sub"Standard".

 

I don't know what is "sub Standard" in relation to what your saying. A Standard is a Standard by Gibsons own definition in any given year. But a 2016 Standard is obviously not a 1959 or 1960 Standard. There's also no such thing as a SG with coil splitting historically as its a rather newer offering. I think what your asking is the exact difference between a 2011 Standard and yours from GC. But I don't know the "exact" specs of yours for a comparison. I'm sure that info could be found by GC somewhere on the web. I vaguely remember your guitar and I can't think of anything that would be sub standard, contrary they seemed to be a very decent LP for a decent price. Locking tuners and coil splitting options are simply options not really mutually exclusive to a Historic LP.

 

Perhaps someone who in more familiar with your exact models and specs will drop in to help. Sorry I couldn't help you more.

[Golden]

Anyway a quick google comes up with these specs

 

Blue Steel Finish over quilted Maple top, natural mahogany body and neck

Carved AAA quilted maple top

60's neck, with burstbucker Pro 1&2 pickups & puss-pull pots on both volumes

Mahogany back with natural finish

Burstbucker Pro Pickups with alnico V magnets

24-3/4" scale, 1-11/16 nut width

2 volume push pull pots, 2 tone, 3 way switching

Grover locking tulip-style tuners

Tune-o-matic bridge with stop bar tailpiece

 

 

As I was saying above I remember the tops on these and thought they were quite nice and would imho not call them sub Standard but above Standard. What I don't know for example is how the body is weight relieved or if the back is one piece mahogany etc. I "assume" this would be the same but I don't know for "sure". But I have no reason to believe its not per say, the same "Standard" as a "Standard".

[Pesh]

Can anyone tell me if these specifications are general things like "finish color" and what PUPS and Tuners to use or more specific things like which Pots, Switches, Capacitors, etc...

 

As it is mentioned above; I don't think "sub-standard" would be the term for any of the specials, but 'non-standard' might be a bit more apt.

 

That's the whole purpose of the specials; some niche that isn't covered by the regular line-up gets looked at in a limited fashion. Special treats in the specifications you might not get without a modification, but comes as stock.

 

To answer your question about what specifications to look for; it could be anything, Each special is unique in terms of what might be offered; sometimes it might just be a limited colour, sometimes a whole truck of things. For example; I have a GC special Traditional Pro II; locking tuners (Trads usually have Klusons). Super '57 bridge pickup; a variation of the Classic '57+ with a higher output, now quite common on some models. It also has a built-in active boost circuit. Yet this is still considered a Les Paul Traditional.

I would still call a Les Paul Standard a Les Paul Standard, even if the body and neck were the only original components on it, and everything else was modified. The Gibson lines have gone through multiple changes on models; Standard lines have come with BurstBuckers, '57s, etc, yet keep the same name.

The same could apply to any one of those specials offered by GC or others. So definitely not sub-anything, just different

[1all's Pub]

To answer your question about what specifications to look for; it could be anything, Each special is unique in terms of what might be offered; sometimes it might just be a limited colour, sometimes a whole truck of things. For example; I have a GC special Traditional Pro II; locking tuners (Trads usually have Klusons). Super '57 bridge pickup; a variation of the Classic '57+ with a higher output, now quite common on some models. It also has a built-in active boost circuit. Yet this is still considered a Les Paul Traditional.

 

What's so cool about the Trad Pro models (I, II, III) is that GC modeled them after the after-market mods people tended to do to their LPs "back in the day". Adding push pots, sanding necks (ie, the satin back), adding boosts. If you're the type of person who would've typically done that "back in the day" then the Trad Pro line is perfect for you.

 

To the OP's concern about Dealer Exclusives... there's nothing "sub-standard" about, say, a Trad Pro model... they are just targeted at a market segment that GC thinks Gibson is ignoring and that they (GC) think they can corner by getting a Dealer Exclusive model built. The Trad Pro models probably tend not to attract the buyer who is looking for a regular production "Traditional" model because, generally, someone looking for a Trad is looking for one without all the extras (ie, push pots, battery-powered boost circuits, etc). But such Dealer Exclusives are not somehow "LP step-childen"... they are legitimate LPs custom ordered by dealers to fill a niche. Trad Pros, for example, are not "cheap" price-wise. The 2015 Trad Pro III in Vintage Burst is $2499 (with a lovely 50s neck and NONE of the 2015 fishiness... played one at a local GC recently... LOVED IT!).

[Pesh]

What's so cool about the Trad Pro models (I, II, III) is that GC modeled them after the after-market mods people tended to do to their LPs "back in the day". Adding push pots, sanding necks (ie, the satin back), adding boosts. If you're the type of person who would've typically done that "back in the day" then the Trad Pro line is perfect for you.

 

To the OP's concern about Dealer Exclusives... there's nothing "sub-standard" about, say, a Trad Pro model... they are just targeted at a market segment that GC thinks Gibson is ignoring and that they (GC) think they can corner by getting a Dealer Exclusive model built. The Trad Pro models probably tend not to attract the buyer who is looking for a regular production "Traditional" model because, generally, someone looking for a Trad is looking for one without all the extras (ie, push pots, battery-powered boost circuits, etc). But such Dealer Exclusives are not somehow "LP step-childen"... they are legitimate LPs custom ordered by dealers to fill a niche. Trad Pros, for example, are not "cheap" price-wise. The 2015 Trad Pro III in Vintage Burst is $2499 (with a lovely 50s neck and NONE of the 2015 fishiness... played one at a local GC recently... LOVED IT!).

 

I wish the GC had made the same mistakes with the TP3 as they did with the TP2; order too many so they have to be circled around the world and sold to non-GC customers like me in the UK! They looked fantastic as always.

[capmaster]

... I just bought (private party) what GC called a Les Paul Standard Plus AAA quilted top limited run " Blue Steel" . Also a 2011 with Burstbucker 1 and 2, push/pulls and locking Grovers. I received info from Gibson Support website that was a little vague, and somehow I got the idea that some components may be sub"Standard".

Me thinks this is about the Les Paul Standard Quilt K (Killer?) available at GC Platinum stores in late 2011. They are the only Gibsons I know of featuring a Coração de Negro fretboard. Five finishes were offered, Royal Blue, Regal Purple, Blue Steel, Orange Amber, and Forest Green. The numbers of items allegedly vary from 30 to 50 per finish. They predate any other Gibson Les Paul with the Modern Weight Relief, introduced later with the 2012 Standards.

 

Very few made it to foreign countries. Nine of them were sold at GAK, UK, three of three finishes each, and mine is the only one in Regal Purple I know of outside the USA. I bought her new at a dealer in Germany.

 

There's nothing "sub-Standard" on this guitar. To my guess her unique tone is a consequence of the combination of Coração de Negro fretboard and Quilt Maple top, as always made of flatsawn Oregon maple.

[Golden]

Ah, there you go, yeah sounds right Cap, I seen yours and a Green in person along with the Steel Blue on ebay. I didn't know about the fretboard.

 

Melanoxylon brauna is a tree of up to seventeen meters high, the family Fabaceae , subfamily Caesalpinioideae , native to Brazil , especially in the Northeast, Southeast (particularly in Ontario) and the states of Parana and Santa Catarina . It's the kind of trees known as one of the toughest and incorruptible timber law Brazilian, brown, almost black in older specimens.

 

Bark used in tanning , dyeing to a black extraction and, as the sap in medicine and industry . It also has imparipenadas leaves, large yellow flowers in panicles , and cylindrical fruits, thick, tomentose . It is also known by the names of tree-of-rain, braúna black, cinnamon, cinnamon-green, heart-to-black maria black maria black-the-woods, maria black-the-field, muiraúna, paravaúna, parovaúna, perovaúna and-tail monkey [ 1 ] .

 

Cap if you get sick you can eat the LP and get better. See thats the type of thing people freak out about and get paranoid with. Thats it, take a G-Note off the price "sub-standard" hehehe. Man I played the Richlite and Baked Maple, I like them both.

 

You know I think some players just have this expectation and just won't compromise, thats why Gibson has a Custom Shop, just for them Cap.

[capmaster]

Ah, there you go, yeah sounds right Cap, I seen yours and a Green in person along with the Steel Blue on ebay. I didn't know about the fretboard.

...

Mine appeared in several topics pictured. I'm still not sure what's the exact tree species of the fretboard timber.

[Golden]

Mine appeared in several topics pictured. I'm still not sure what's the exact tree species of the fretboard timber.

 

I remember the Quilt Green on the wall in GC and the top was so stunning I was staring at it. The dude said, "you want me to get it down for you"? I told him there was no need because it was priced to high for me. Those are nice LPs, real lookers.

 

Thats probably where the OP is coming from through. Admittedly I'm assuming.

[DBRUCE]

Me thinks this is about the Les Paul Standard Quilt K (Killer?) available at GC Platinum stores in late 2011. They are the only Gibsons I know of featuring a Coração de Negro fretboard. Five finishes were offered, Royal Blue, Regal Purple, Blue Steel, Orange Amber, and Forest Green. The numbers of items allegedly vary from 30 to 50 per finish. They predate any other Gibson Les Paul with the Modern Weight Relief, introduced later with the 2012 Standards.

 

Very few made it to foreign countries. Nine of them were sold at GAK, UK, three of three finishes each, and mine is the only one in Regal Purple I know of outside the USA. I bought her new at a dealer in Germany.

 

There's nothing "sub-Standard" on this guitar. To my guess her unique tone is a consequence of the combination of Coração de Negro fretboard and Quilt Maple top, as always made of flatsawn Oregon maple.

 

Great, so I wrote this long explanation. Then it got erased trying to upload photos of my SG and new ( or like new ) LP Blue Steel. Hate when that happens. So, In short. I read something into what I was told about "dealer exclusives". Figured GC was thinking more in terms of Profit Margin than pleasing the guitar buying public. My bad As to "Sub-Standard", I meant a Studio is a Studio. A Tribute's a Tribute. A Classic is a Classic, all of which sell for considerably less than the Standard that's a Standard. If the body's and neck's are the same, it has to be everything else, right !!?? I'm Gibson to the bone. Love my SG Standard. Saw this LP Standard with (yur right Cap) a killer top, but for me it 's the contrast of the top to the light see-thru finish of the sides and back. Totally *****in!! The grain pops thru that light finish. Had to have it. Original owner said '57 Classics...their Burstbuckers 1 and 2. Said it was a '011...it's an '012 ( according to ser. #). said a hundred were made in each of 3 colors...? I give up!! All I know is that it's like near mint, comes with original case, all case candy, and the original GC receipt. The guy says he found it in the Platinum room, got $500 off the price, the receipt says he paid $2671 and change out the door. Which i guess means original price was just under $3k before taxes. So I gave the guy $1900 and took it home. All just over 9 lbs. of it. Think it's weight relieved somehow. Not Chambered. Anyway, all my guitars are limited run and fairly rare. So, the LP fit right in. 2 are by GC and 3 are not by GC. O yeah, Love that about the Brazilian Fretboard. Thanks again everybody. I think we all had fun in this exchange. Hey Golden...what's an "OP" ? is that me? Dbruce

[Golden]

the receipt says he paid $2671

 

Sounds right also, the one I was talking about was 2700 and change. You sure the pups are BB-1 and 2s and not BB-Pros?

 

Anyway, yes it was an interesting thread. You have a photo of this bad-boy?

[DBRUCE]

Sounds right also, the one I was talking about was 2700 and change. You sure the pups are BB-1 and 2s and not BB-Pros?

 

Anyway, yes it was an interesting thread. You have a photo of this bad-boy?

 

Hey Golden, According to Bob @ Gibson.com they're BB-1 rhythm and BB-2 lead. No pics yet. Took it to a local A+ rated Gibson repair guy (Eclipse Guitars that I got from the Gibson Warranty Service Website), the day after I got it to get it Setup more to my liking. Will take some pics and try and post them. Tried to post pics of my SG from my "Dropbox", and images of a Blue Steel off the internet, but ended up loosing everything I had written. Hope to get it back by Friday. I'll post some pics this weekend. Dbruce

[capmaster]

... Saw this LP Standard with (yur right Cap) a killer top, but for me it 's the contrast of the top to the light see-thru finish of the sides and back. Totally *****in!! The grain pops thru that light finish. Had to have it. ...their Burstbuckers 1 and 2. Said it was a '011...it's an '012 ( according to ser. #). said a hundred were made in each of 3 colors...? ...

Dbruce

Gibson named them "Les Paul Standard Quilt K" without explaining what "K" should mean. When I look at mine the K has to say "Killer Quilt" The natural back is half of the beauty to my eyes, too. What a brilliant idea!

 

The S/N of mine is from 2011. Between neck stamp and packing dates passed 42 days, a very long period for a solid-body Gibson.

 

This is how they were advertised by GC in their late 2011 catalog "100,000 Holiday Dreams" on page 14 of 108, left column center:

http://mydigimag.rrd.com/publication/index.php?i=87085&m=&l=&p=14&pre=

 

Looks like this (Finish Codes: RB = Royal Blue; RP = Regal Purple; FO = Forest Green; OA = Orange Amber; BT = Blue Steel):

 

 

 

 

... Will take some pics and try and post them. ... Hope to get it back by Friday. I'll post some pics this weekend.

Dbruce

Curious about the pics to come!

[Roach]

One way GC gets profits off LP's is they will often put gibsons list price and discount from there, BUT Gibson list price includes the case. GC then separates it from the case and puts the list price of a case on that and then after you get your "great deal" on the guitar you still have to buy the case. Though i bought my 2016 studio there with case included, it was exactly the way it is described on gibsons product page with only the gforce tuning thing being the only exception i know of. It did not have it.

 

I dont know if they still do that or not but i know they used to.

[pippy]

The OP has had his question answered so I'm not going to say any more on that matter but just in case anyone new to these parts is unaware;

 

...As to "Sub-Standard", I meant a Studio is a Studio. A Tribute's a Tribute. A Classic is a Classic, all of which sell for considerably less than the Standard that's a Standard. If the body's and neck's are the same, it has to be everything else, right !!??...

 

Oddly enough, no.

 

You'll find most of the hardware on, say, a Studio to be, effectively, the same hardware as found on, say, a Les Paul Custom. They have the same bridge, same tailpiece, same electrics, same plastics (multi-ply 'guard and engravings aside) and normally they have the same p'ups and the same tuners. Even when there are differences (specs of both change on occasion) these differences are not the reason a Custom costs more than a Studio. The Studio is cheaper because the time spent on 'bling' is practically nil; no binding on either body or neck; no time-laborious high-gloss Nitro finish; simpler headstock detailing and so on.

 

A Studio is sub-Standard to other LPs on price and decoration but that's about it.

 

Pip.

[DBRUCE]

The OP has had his question answered so I'm not going to say any more on that matter but just in case anyone new to these parts is unaware;

 

 

 

Oddly enough, no.

 

You'll find most of the hardware on, say, a Studio to be, effectively, the same hardware as found on, say, a Les Paul Custom. They have the same bridge, same tailpiece, same electrics, same plastics (multi-ply 'guard and engravings aside) and normally they have the same p'ups and the same tuners. Even when there are differences (specs of both change on occasion) these differences are not the reason a Custom costs more than a Studio. The Studio is cheaper because the time spent on 'bling' is practically nil; no binding on either body or neck; no time-laborious high-gloss Nitro finish; simpler headstock detailing and so on.

 

A Studio is sub-Standard to other LPs on price and decoration but that's about it.

 

Pip.

Yeah, The OP (what ever that is ), has read many quotes on many forums, and many reviews on many guitar hawking websites. We know their names. A lot of talk about inferior hardware along with a lack of bling. So many varieties of the LP ( I almost said sub;species) It's the spice of life as they say, but when they throw a 9 volt super circuit in an LP and call it a Traditional.....it's outta hand. There are those who say Gibson hasn't made a quality instrument since '08. I myself have seen much poor workmanship hanging on the wall at GC, sporting titles like Les Paul and SG. Particularly '013,'014, and '015's. I've heard tell that the'016's are a different animal now. I wouldn't know, the only thing I go to GC for these days is strings. Opinions appear to be formed by the guitar the individual owns. Me, I'm happy with my '011 SG Standard and now my '011 LP Standard which apparently is a Standard and not a Studio. Thank You

[DBRUCE]

Yeah, The OP (what ever that is ), has read many quotes on many forums, and many reviews on many guitar hawking websites. We know their names. A lot of talk about inferior hardware along with a lack of bling. So many varieties of the LP ( I almost said sub;species) It's the spice of life as they say, but when they throw a 9 volt super circuit in an LP and call it a Traditional.....it's outta hand. There are those who say Gibson hasn't made a quality instrument since '08. I myself have seen much poor workmanship hanging on the wall at GC, sporting titles like Les Paul and SG. Particularly '013,'014, and '015's. I've heard tell that the'016's are a different animal now. I wouldn't know, the only thing I go to GC for these days is strings. Opinions appear to be formed by the guitar the individual owns. Me, I'm happy with my '011 SG Standard and now my '011 LP Standard which apparently is a Standard and not a Studio. Thank You

 

One last thing.......when I say hardware , I'm not talking about the bridge and tailpiece.

[capmaster]

Yeah, The OP (what ever that is )...

OP used in forums says Original Poster, meaning the member who started the thread, so in this topic it's you.

 

 

One last thing.......when I say hardware , I'm not talking about the bridge and tailpiece.

There are lots of hardware parts on a guitar, especially an electric one. Bridge and tailpiece belong there as well as bushings and posts, machine heads, jack plate, control plate, vibrato arm, vibrato springs, as far as applicable, of course.

 

What in particular did you talk about here?

[pippy]

Yeah, The OP (what ever that is ), has read many quotes on many forums, and many reviews on many guitar hawking websites. We know their names. A lot of talk about inferior hardware along with a lack of bling. So many varieties of the LP ( I almost said sub;species) It's the spice of life as they say, but when they throw a 9 volt super circuit in an LP and call it a Traditional.....it's outta hand. There are those who say Gibson hasn't made a quality instrument since '08. I myself have seen much poor workmanship hanging on the wall at GC, sporting titles like Les Paul and SG. Particularly '013,'014, and '015's. I've heard tell that the'016's are a different animal now. I wouldn't know, the only thing I go to GC for these days is strings. Opinions appear to be formed by the guitar the individual owns. Me, I'm happy with my '011 SG Standard and now my '011 LP Standard which apparently is a Standard and not a Studio. Thank You

 

What a silly billy.

 

My comments re: the Studio weren't an attack on yourself nor your choice of guitar but since you cut'n'pasted'n'made'n'comments...

 

Goodness knows which fora and websites you've been reading but let's just say it appears that you have swallowed an awful lot of bull. It's not necessary - nor, indeed, advisable - to find out specs through internet gossip and heresay. Gibson themselves publish detailed specs for each model. Could you be very specific about what "inferior hardware" has been used on a Gibson Les Paul?

 

As far as hardware goes USA-line LPs invariably feature identical Switchcraft switches and 1/4" jack socket, CTS pots, Kluson (Tone Pro's) or Grover machines, Nash 'bridge and stoptail etc...etc...across the line. Some detail differences have been introduced recently such as the locking t'ps but (min-e-tune aside) other than that?

Please enlighten us.

 

And FWIW (that means 'for what it's worth') my opinion isn't formed by the particular model(s) of LP I own.

 

You're welcome.

 

Pip.

[Roach]

One last thing.......when I say hardware , I'm not talking about the bridge and tailpiece.

 

i was thinking you meant tuners, pickups. But i hope a custom has better tuners than a studio? 14:1 is kinda weak. I replaced those immediately with a nice aftermarket 21:1 brand.

My Les paul Special had the same pickups as the custom, but this studio has something different...

i actually went to buy a standard but the selection was so poor i wanted an axe NOW so i grabbed this studio and my back loves me for it

[pippy]

...i hope a custom has better tuners than a studio?...

Different years have seen different fitments - sometimes Grovers, sometimes Kluson/Tone Pro's and so-on - but AFAIK they are, in general, the same units. The USA-line Custom (usually) has metal tips and the machines are gold-plated whereas the Studio (usually) has chrome-plated 'bodies' and often has 'green key-stone' tips but those are about the only changes.

 

Pip.

[Roach]

Different years have seen different fitments - sometimes Grovers, sometimes Kluson/Tone Pro's and so-on - but AFAIK they are, in general, the same units. The USA-line Custom (usually) has metal tips and the machines are gold-plated whereas the Studio (usually) has chrome-plated 'bodies' and often has 'green key-stone' tips but those are about the only changes.

 

Pip.

 

Its the ratio that matters to me when it comes to tuning, being a former drummer i still hear cymbals ringing while trying to train my ears to hear the finer oscillations to tune and last thing i need is to move one gear on tuner and pass the note. Gforce tuning thing does not appeal to me for a few reasons, so a good fine tuner is very important to me, (i need to tune it myself for the experience and i do not use alternate tunings yet, if ever).

but yea i dont care for those 14:1 gibsons that came on both my LP's