Found Another Gibson Worth The Money (I think)

[Corey]

I found a Gibson online for sale that I will be checking out in person. So far all I have seen are pictures, but it looks pretty good minus some cracks in the finish which is what the fellow selling it told me. It is an (most likely) early 1970s B45 12 string Deluxe. Before I tell you how much I am paying for it (if it is in as stated and pictured good condition) what is that model of guitar worth? Thanks in advance.

[j45nick]

The prices of these are all over the place, judging by the fairly large number of ebay auctions. Because the condition of these seems to vary dramatically--not cosmetic condition necessarily, but actual structural condition--it's pretty hard to generalize without knowing the particular instrument.

 

I've seen asking prices from about $1000 to $2000, but I don't know what they are actually selling for. A pretty rare early round-shoulder B-45 12 is at a well-known dealer for about $2500. I actually looked at buying an absolutely clean early square model with pin bridge at about $1800, but got cold feet.

 

Some of these guitars are pristine cosmetically, as 12-strings tend to get played less than a comparable six-string. A lot have major structural issues due to the high string tension, particularly if they are tuned to concert pitch. A later one like you are looking at may have a better chance of being structurally sound due to the Norlin-era bracing, but its tone may suffer.

[Corey]

So $300 probably a pretty good price if it's in fairly good shape?

[Stringbreaker]

$300 would be a great price, if the guitar is in decent condition. Gibsons from the 70s have prices all over the place at places like Ebay because the company at that time was having some serious quality issues. Therefore prices tend to inflate because they are Gibsons; but they tend to go down because of the quality of the instruments, so people that don't take the time to research can overpay. The Gibson website, in its excellent and honest history section, discusses quality issues during that period.

[j45nick]

So $300 probably a pretty good price if it's in fairly good shape?

 

 

Yes, if the top isn't collapsing and the action is not high. You sometimes see compression fractures of the top from tension on the neck. These show up as cracks along the top on either side of the fretboard or between the end of the fretboard and the soundhole, often accompanied by longitudinal displacement of the top and/or the bindings or soundhole purfling along those cracks. You should also sight across the top to see if there is a dip in the top between the bridge and the soundhole. This is probably less likely if it is a trap-tail model rather than a pin bridge.

 

Generally, you are looking for abnormal distortions in the top that may indicate structural issues, and/or excessively high action requiring a neck set (about a $500 job).

 

As has been mentioned here before, the best 12-strings structurally are probably the older Guilds, but the B-45 12 is really appealing to some people, including me.

[zombywoof]

A B45-12 from the 1970s is far less likely to have a distorted or imploded top than earlier guitars. In late 1964 Gibson bulked up the bracing - adding a second X brace running along side of the existing X brace. This helped stabilize the tops but these guitars do not sound near as good as the lighter built earlier ones. But for $300 it is hard to go wrong.

[zombywoof]

I've seen asking prices from about $1000 to $2000, but I don't know what they are actually selling for. A pretty rare early round-shoulder B-45 12 is at a well-known dealer for about $2500. I actually looked at buying an absolutely clean early square model with pin bridge at about $1800, but got cold feet.

 

 

There was also a round shoulder B45-12 up for grabs on eBay for the same price - this one had a natural top which makes it the rarest B45-12 out there as these were a special order prior to 1963.

 

Most consider the 1963-1964 square shoulder guitars with the pin bridges to be the best of the breed. I still think you should have jumped on it. Not many of those early pin bridge models have survived. Mine is a very early 1963 and retains the older trapeze bridge set up.

[j45nick]

Most consider the 1963-1964 square shoulder guitars with the pin bridges to be the best of the breed. I still think you should have jumped on it. Not many of those early pin bridge models have survived. Mine is a very early 1963 and retains the older trapeze bridge set up.

 

 

You are probably right, but my wife is making noises about a new living room sofa that cost about $7000. If I had bought the guitar, I would have been on pretty shaky ground saying "no" to her, or making her decide between the sofa and a new stove costing the same amount.

 

My wife understands how the system works, and is not above keeping score.....

[Hall]

Dave's, has a 78 same model with repairs and reset for $995.00.