gov Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 Cost considerations aside, how turned off should one be by a vintage guitar that is missing a tone bar. It's the one closest to the bridge in this case. I ask because the tone on this one is off the charts good. The shop has offered to replace the tone bar as part of the sale. The guitar is a player and I'm not looking for a show piece. It is priced accordingly. I'm also curious if there could be any irreversible structural issues with the top since it is lacking structure where the most tension is (nearest to the bridge). It seems like top has a greater radius more closer to the bridge but I don't have a same model to compare to. Somewhat related, how will the tone change with the addition of the second bar? I'm wondering how much of what I like can (or is) attributed to the minimal bracing. I know fewer braces should lead to a more responsive top so wondering if the replacing the bar will dampen in some way the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I am not qualified to offer you an informed opinion - but those here that are may want to know Make, Model, Year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gov Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 Thanks Dan--it's an LG2 wartime era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I do not have a clue what you mean when you say the top is more readjusted closer to the bridge. I would, however, have the guitar checked out by somebody who knows what they are doing. If the top is starting to sink or is displaying excessive bellying you would want the cost of the repairs factored in. But to answer your question I have bought guitars with replaced braces. But the price was right and the work had been done by guys very familiar with that type of guitar so was probably as close as you could get to the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 If it sounds great and the top doesn't deflect when you push down on it with your thumb.....I would leave it as is....LG-2's are small guitars, and the tops are not stressed as much as a larger guitar top would be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gov Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 I do not have a clue what you mean when you say the top is more readjusted closer to the bridge. Sorry--ipad autocorrected "radiused" which was probably a bad word to start with. I would, however, have the guitar checked out by somebody who knows what they are doing. If the top is starting to sink or is displaying excessive bellying you would want the cost of the repairs factored in. But to answer your question I have bought guitars with replaced braces. But the price was right and the work had been done by guys very familiar with that type of guitar so was probably as close as you could get to the original. No doubt I will be doing that--getting it checked. Compared to my SJ there would appear to be "excessive" bellying closest to the bridge--which is what i meant above by saying the radius nearest the bridge is higher than I would expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gov Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 If it sounds great and the top doesn't deflect when you push down on it with your thumb.....I would leave it as is....LG-2's are small guitars, and the tops are not stressed as much as a larger guitar top would be.... thanks for the advice OWF. I'm a tad reluctant to push on the top in that manner though! Maybe I'll have the dealer do it ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 The tone bar should definitely be replaced -- those LG-2s are not over-braced, and it will predictably be unstable if not fixed. It will change the sound. When an old guitar top is "lost" it is because the whole system loses enough stiftness so it is not longer stable. Such guitars have excessive top distortion and generally will not stay in tune. If it is past the point of no return, then replacing that tone bar will not help. However it is possible that the top distortions you are seeing may be corrected with a replaced brace. Some very experienced vintage guitar luthiers may be able to tell without replacing the brace -- most however would replace the brace and see what happens. I just checked, and we don't have braces shots of our '46 LG-2. We can take that picture if it helps you. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gov Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 appreciate the advice Tom. So if adding in the brace settles the top and is functionally OK you would not be passing on it solely because of this? I also appreciate your offer to photo--if this is close enough in your mind, I think this will suffice for now: http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/sreply/20407/Vintage-Gibson-bracing-library#.Ui0r-8ash8E thanks again Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I have had old guitars quite a bit smaller than an LG-2 that had issues due to a missing or broken brace. If you don't replace it you takes your chances. Thing is with these old guitars unless you know your way around them and can identify issues and what it will take and cost to have them fixed you are better off paying a bit more and going to one of the big sexy dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gov Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 agreed zomby. I've bought a few vintage guitars and while i would consider myself far from one of the experts on these matters, I do know the typical pitfalls and what to look for. I have to admit I have a bit of "buck fever" on this one--or tone clouding my eyes and brain ;) i've been on the search for some time for "the one" and have gone to every type of dealer imaginable focusing first on the sound i'm looking for and then focusing on the rest. I've passed on many for every reason imaginable and might ultimately pass on this one but I can't shake the sound--it haunts me. I just simply don't have the knowledge or experience with a flat out missing brace--loose braces, cracked tops, bad frets, bad neck all yes (and all on my 46 epi too!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gov Posted September 9, 2013 Author Share Posted September 9, 2013 oh and to be clear--from my view and why I'm asking, it's not whether to replace the bar but rather should i walk from this because the tone bar will be an addition and not original to the guitar. again, not from a collectability perspective, but from a players perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted September 9, 2013 Share Posted September 9, 2013 I guess you could look at is as you will never know wyhat the guitar sounded like fresh out of the factory. What you are hearing today is a combination of design and aging. And replacing parts that have given up the ghost is really juist part of the aging process and becomes part of the instrument's history. The best sounding small guitar I own is a 1930s red spruce top Stella concert. Not saying if it factors in or not but it had a broken brace replaced and a new bridge installled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gov Posted September 10, 2013 Author Share Posted September 10, 2013 I guess you could look at is as you will never know wyhat the guitar sounded like fresh out of the factory. What you are hearing today is a combination of design and aging. And replacing parts that have given up the ghost is really juist part of the aging process and becomes part of the instrument's history. The best sounding small guitar I own is a 1930s red spruce top Stella concert. Not saying if it factors in or not but it had a broken brace replaced and a new bridge installled. fair reasoning zomby. I'm taking this one a step further. will report back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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