keeptahoeblue Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 here is my question? if you took away the ornate nature of custom shop gibbys would a custom shop model sound better? if so why? Are the luthiers better? How do we know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 By 'Ornate' nature, do you mean over-the-top bling and/or carvings? I have a 'custom shop' gibson, but my impression is that all Gibson Montana guitars go out on the factory floor to be built, just like any other model. The custom shop's involvement might have more to do with something like a special inlay design. I think you might get some special wood selection from the custom shop, but I'm not certain that has as much to do with sound as appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeptahoeblue Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 so the luthiers are the same? or of the same quality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-200 Koa Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Some of the luthiers only work on the intricate inlays found in the Custom Shop models. I'm sure the craftsmen or craftswomen who work on the standard models also work on Custom Shop models in assembling bodies, necks, etc... Guitarstrummer and ksdaddy would know since they have been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 so the luthiers are the same? or of the same quality? Since it sounds like you haven't heard the story of how custom work gets done in Bozeman -- which gets told every once in awhile here -- let me give you a short version, and encourage you to search the archives if you want more detail. The Custom Shop (a/k/a the Art Shop) is a small room in the plant where three luthiers work, Master Luthier Ren, Val, and Jason. (Think of them as Papa Luthier, Mama Luthier, and Baby Luthier.) How much work they do on a guitar that's labeled "Custom Shop" depends on the guitar. At one extreme, none at all, or pretty close to it -- the label is there just to indicate that the guitar was built to a customer's custom specs or was a limited edition. An order for a custom finish, for example, might result in "Custom Shop"-labeled guitar built entirely on the production line. At the other extreme, quite a lot. But, even on the $50K Master Museum models, some of the work is done on the regular production line (albeit sometimes by a particular production line worker at the request of the Custom Shop luthier taking the lead on building a particular guitar). E.g., Ren told me that it's been a long time since he's bent a side, since the guys on the line who do that for a living have more experience, and so are better at it, than he is. To add to the confusion, some guitars that get worked on in the Custom Shop may not be labeled "Custom Shop". After all, this is Gibson! In days of yore, when there was a larger Custom Shop upstairs in Bozeman, a "Custom Shop" label was supposed to mean that the guitar was built upstairs. Now, it means something like "in some way, this guitar differed from the standard production models at the time it was built". Overall, I think this is a good thing. A guitar that is already built deserves to be evaluated on its own merits, not according to who worked on it. And, if you're ordering a custom guitar and you want, say, Ren to select the wood or to brace the top or hand-engrave the pickguard, have your dealer ask for that when he gets your quote. Heck, if you want Ren to bend the sides, just ask -- but you'd better be prepared for sticker shock when you hear the price. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerpopper Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Thank you for that explanation rar, especially for me since I am relatively new to the forum. Very interesting info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 My custom shop Firebird has a signed "certificate of authenticity" by Ren......that's why I got mine..... By the way RAR....could you get Annie to post some pics of her Custom LOO by Ren, and especially the back of that unbelievable Mahogany that Ren picked out especially for her!!!???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 There is another interesting aspect with your question - the impact of decoration on tonality. Many luthiers I have talked with tell me exactly this: Good sound comes from wood, not abalone. Still if the abalone is a purfling around the edge of the best top in the factory that day, the guitar might indeed sound better than an undecorated model. The ideal, in my opinion, is to have the custom order guitar without heavy decorations and carvings - just the experienced luthier picking the prime wood and assembling it with craftsmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 By the way RAR....could you get Annie to post some pics of her Custom LOO by Ren' date=' and especially the back of that unbelievable Mahogany that Ren picked out especially for her!!!????[/quote'] Turns out, no -- she declared she don't know nothin' 'bout postin' no pics -- but told me to go ahead. I'm think we posted these a few months ago, but I could be wrong. The front looks pretty much like (the mirror image of) any other L-00 Legend: However, the gorgeous flame on the back is something else. It doesn't photograph well -- for me, anyway, because I'm a lousy photographer -- but this will give you some idea: One of the reasons the build took so long was that Ren hid this back away to use for something special, and it took him awhile to find it again. BTW, this is the best-sounding brand new guitar I've ever heard. (IMHO, of course!) Anne played it at an open mic the day it showed up at our door, just a couple of days after it was finished. A bunch of people came up to her afterward to ask about it and tell her how great it was, something I've never seen there before, despite the frequent appearances of some very high-end custom instruments. After two months, it is maybe even better. Anybody out there who thinks some of the big-name custom luthiers out there are building better "L-00"s than Gibson can needs to hear this guitar! -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 These pics don't do it justice RAR.....lol.....that Mahogany is something else in real life. And I agree with Rar.....this little guitar sounds amazing....and it has the feel of a 100 year old guitar.....just sweet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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